Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Season 6 Episode 17 - Normal Again

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[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes a world looks like you ain't ever seen it before Just be how never ended with those All you need is a door Searching for something to put a smile back on your face Just remembering unusual times I can come from one unusual place

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[SPEAKER_01]: I need a partner for a ride Cause everybody needs a ride Such a bird is to the side Just ask See the word and I'll be there Just ask

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[SPEAKER_01]: I know the greatest things in the life I'll come in a pair They say hindsight's 20, 20 That ain't far enough behind me So we can walk this sweetest honey I think hindsight's 19, 19 Isn't me to pretend I got a hand I can land Who's like you really need a friend Just ask

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[SPEAKER_04]: She's ready to play another day, so our lives don't be back to shit.

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[SPEAKER_04]: 90 shows taught me.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just darling here with my co-hosts, Sarah Humphrey, Sarah, how are you?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Whoa, whoa, whoa, look who's back and not evaporated into dust after childbirth.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Whoa!

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[SPEAKER_04]: You know what you have to tell me.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Did your baby come out just as clean as Darlas?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Honestly, I was in a buffy days because I wound up having a sea section.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So anything can happen.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He could have come out clean.

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[SPEAKER_03]: He could have come out with green skin and red hair.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Like I have no clue.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Well, actually he did come out with kind of red hair.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But I kind of didn't have red hair.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm not quite sure if it was red, or these people have never seen like blonde hair tinted, but everybody was just like, it's red, it's red, and I'm like, oh no, the red, but anyway, not evaporated, still here, my baby ash has not been sent into the portal quite yet.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Good.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So, why is that?

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[SPEAKER_03]: still on this realm.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Thank goodness.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, of course we're back talking Buffy.

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[SPEAKER_04]: It's been a minute since we recorded a Buffy podcast.

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[SPEAKER_04]: It's been like two months at least since we last recorded about Buffy, but of course we're here today.

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[SPEAKER_04]: It's talks these in six episodes, 17, normal again, and we're not alone.

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[SPEAKER_04]: AJ, thank god you're here because I think we're both a little rusty.

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[SPEAKER_04]: So you can help us.

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[SPEAKER_04]: You can help keep us on the podcasting track.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I will, I'll do my best to make sure that you guys can make this experience normal again.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But don't don't.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Nice, it's great to be back with you guys and it's a fun episode.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's one of my favorite buffet of the hotel.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, I'm very happy to talk to you about it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, you guys are doing this from reverse because you guys took like two months off and then are doing this episode whereas after this episode, all of us watching in real time had to take close to two months off before we saw a new buffet.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So,

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[SPEAKER_04]: All interesting, that's fascinating.

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[SPEAKER_04]: We should have timed our break better, Sarah, apparently.

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[SPEAKER_04]: We did bad job.

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[SPEAKER_03]: There are a reason why AJ, they took a two month break, was just sometimes TV shows take those breaks.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I never.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Back then, when you had 22, 23 episodes seasons, there was that stretch in the middle where they just said, all right, let's get those second runs, and we'll do four or six weeks of reruns before the home stretch.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's kind of what we had here.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I remember those days.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It was always so annoying because you're just like winter blind line.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Why not wait until the four weeks.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I remember pretty little liars I was doing that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I was always so missed.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Especially because it was like there every show did it.

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[SPEAKER_04]: So there was nothing on for like a good couple of months.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And it was like, well, what am I supposed to do with my time?

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[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I need to watch TV.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you don't watch it too because if you didn't watch it, like you couldn't just like stream it or anything like you know, you had a, I mean, yes, you we had DVRs or DVD players back then not even DVRs so like you got the commercials but you hit the wrong AM versus PM and then you were just SLL.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, gosh.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_04]: All right, well, let's talk some, let's talk some Buffy.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Let's talk some normal again.

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[SPEAKER_04]: This episode feels, Sarah, something about this episode feels kind of 90s in that it's like, what if it's all a dream?

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[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean?

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[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like a lot of shows did this sort of a thing, where it's like, but what if, and this, we know it's not, we know it's the dream of like, you hand.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.

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[SPEAKER_03]: No, I think I'm on team this all fake.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's all fake.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, I'm pretty firm and this is so interesting to me because back in 2007 it was the last Harry Potter book was coming out and there was a big rumor amongst the people that Harry Potter was crazy and it was all like a psychotic

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[SPEAKER_03]: dream.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I fully bought in then too.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, yes, I think that this is what's going to happen.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to get to the last chapter.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Harry Potter is going to wake up.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And it was just some sort of delusion he was never magical.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So I

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[SPEAKER_03]: I love this type of thing because it really turns everything on its head a little bit and makes you question and in true Buffy fashion it kind of reminds me of the first season where things were just end abruptly and weirdly we are left to make our own choice on if this is real or not because I'm assuming that this is never going to come up again.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I'd be surprised if it did, um, yeah, that's so interesting.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, obviously I think bringing Joyce back to the show gives it more validity.

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[SPEAKER_04]: If that makes sense, like it feels like it could be more real because the actor who plays Joyce is like on the show, which Ajay was so happy about, by the way, even though it's going to, it's

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[SPEAKER_04]: Buffy needs to add at least seven years to her therapist's like a time of therapy.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I'm as a result of Joyce showing up, but I was so happy to see her.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, oh, yeah, she's back for like an episode.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I think.

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[SPEAKER_00]: the thing with an episode like this and yes this is this is a trope that's been around for a long time and most of the time I would say 90% of the time when an a show does this it's either just grasping its draws for storylines or it's just done very poorly um yeah but when it's done very well

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[SPEAKER_00]: is amazing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They did an episode of, you know, lost had an episode like this where the was everything in days had in the in the sanitarium kind of thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The extraneous character was early like making this whole thing up kind of thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So there was that sort of thing on lost.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Deep space nine did an amazing episode where Captain Cisco

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[SPEAKER_00]: woke up one day and he's a science fiction writer in the 1950s writing a novel called Deep Face 9 and he doesn't know which is the real reality and that was not very well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Magicians did a great episode of this, where Quentin was in in in a asylum and he was being tricked of course, you know, by by a witch to like try and get him out of the plot line, but

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[SPEAKER_00]: When it's done well, it's done extremely well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, even total recall, the movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger, the original, it kind of ends with this, while is he dreaming and seeing not a dreaming kind of thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is just another one of those that it doesn't matter because it doesn't matter what you believe at the end.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Either way, it's fine, we're still, and you're right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's not squalling anything, say that this is a one-off, and this doesn't come up again, really, but at the same time, it's like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: It could it be that she's in a mental institution.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, in fact, the writers' room of Buffy is split on whether or not what the answer is.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Josh has said that, Josh has said that he always wrote it tongue and cheek to kind of like, go, you know, we can explain away any.

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[SPEAKER_00]: plot problems and you know, it was a commentary on the show itself as you saw as like, you know, oh, yeah, we just made up a sister.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, you know, like she wasn't even there and it's causing the whole reality to collapse.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I love that as being part of the episode itself.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, it doesn't matter what you believe.

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[SPEAKER_00]: you didn't intend it to be the way, but if you believe that, it doesn't affect anything in the shows universe itself, and so it's kind of fun to imagine.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was also not for nothing, but I was kind of disappointed that when we were talking about the possible reboot this year, and then we're saying, what could happen with the reboot?

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[SPEAKER_00]: The reboot could have sprung off from her and the mental institution and you should just spun off in any direction from that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, any continuity hours out the window, just go back there and she said, oh, she's going back into another different reality and boom, there you go, launch the series in a different direction.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it works at this point of the series as the fact that, you know,

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[SPEAKER_00]: they didn't really want to have this season really, you know, when they killed her, they thought, well, that's it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're done and they got to reprieve like, I'm not going to spin our wheels.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I'll have more to say about it, but I'll let you guys discuss what I just brought up.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's all very interesting.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I like that we're able to remind me of, not by seeing the sopranos, but it reminds me of the sopranos of the ending.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the ending, like you can choose what you want to believe.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I have a side question.

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[SPEAKER_03]: My phone keeps sending me notifications that a Buffy Ruby, reboot is gang rebooted.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Slash an angel reboot.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Why is my phone telling me these things?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Is it odd?

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[SPEAKER_03]: off because I hope it is time me fake news.

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[SPEAKER_04]: This is the last I knew it wasn't happening.

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[SPEAKER_03]: What about an angel reboot?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Because it's literally telling me about angel reboots all the time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I had not heard any any story to the angel.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I swear to God, my phone is spewing fake news to me.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, but a few of the vampires say we're officially confirmed is really, at least, date for Angel's sequel.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's like every other notification, Angel returns his but few of the vampires say her spinoff sequel confirms really a state.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I swear to God, so this is this is this is the comic book.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it's comics.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And let me tell you guys when you were done with season seven, we need to talk about season eight, which took place in the comic books, just putting that on your radar because the world because children are waiting for a lesson.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's, yeah, pin in that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Let's know Angel reboot or Buffy reboot.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's just comics.

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[SPEAKER_00]: As far as I know, it's a reboot, I just looked it up on Collider.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's an article that it's a reboot of the comic strip.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Can my phone chill out, please?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Because it literally sends you push notifications.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, fake news.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That's a lot.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That's a lot.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Are you trying not to look at any of that stuff?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Cause I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_04]: It's okay, all right, bad on your phone.

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[SPEAKER_04]: All right, let's talk about Buffy a little bit.

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[SPEAKER_04]: We got a little sneak peek or a little peek at what the loser trio is up to.

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[SPEAKER_04]: We last left off with like Buffy is trying to narrow down where they're hiding out and she has this whole list of like addresses and she ends up finding the location.

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[SPEAKER_04]: She doesn't realize that she's poking around.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And

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[SPEAKER_04]: The loser trio has been like living in a basement for weeks, which, uh, that tracks.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Um, they look like people who live in their parents' basement for a really long time.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Who's the ender catching strays?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, um, I, you know what, none of my jobs at Zander are ever strays.

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[SPEAKER_04]: They're more like a frying pan straight to the face.

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[SPEAKER_04]: because he he deserves it.

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[SPEAKER_04]: There's no coming back from leaving on yet the altar.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I'll let everyone know that right now.

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[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, the loser trio is hanging out.

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[SPEAKER_04]: They have like a what looks to be like a super soaker, which I'm jealous because I always wanted like a giant super soaker um and Drew is being and I think it's his name, Drew.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I'm really rusty on the names of the trio.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Andrew Andrew and

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[SPEAKER_04]: Wait, what was the first one's name, AJ?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Warren.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Warren, I'm sorry.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Warren was who I was thinking of.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Warren is the overlord, and he doesn't want anyone to leave, because AJ, I know you're like a Jonathan Truther, you're like a Jonathan Apologist.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Jonathan wants to leave.

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[SPEAKER_04]: He's like sad.

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[SPEAKER_04]: He doesn't want to be a bad guy anymore.

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[SPEAKER_04]: He, or at least he doesn't want to be associated with these idiots anymore.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And he wants to leave.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Warren says, hmm, not allowed.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I've been charging her out leaving.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, Jonathan, is it coward at heart?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we know this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, ever since the enhancement spell that made him the talk of the town of the total of the town, he's just going to like try to live in his own skin.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it is not been,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to good run.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he ever really wanted to go as far in the direction that Warren has gone.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now he's regretting his actions, but he's stuck.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He stuck with the decisions that he has made.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And it's Andrew who summons this demon with what appears to be like that Australian instrument.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Waterstick or something.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I forget what that's all.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Did you redo?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Did you redo?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.

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[SPEAKER_04]: That's it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, how else would you, how else would you do some of the watercolor

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[SPEAKER_04]: It's like when you made up the name for the glib globs, Sarah, it's like literally a glib glob.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I miss those glib globs.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Very good time.

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[SPEAKER_04]: But he summons a demon that attacks Buffy and he basically has this needle on his body and he stabs her with it and it makes her lose her mind a little bit and see alternate dimensions of herself.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I just want to know what the effects are to anybody else.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Is it I kind of makes me feel like it's

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[SPEAKER_03]: whatever your worst nightmare is or maybe joyless back to your worst moments because we learned that but we actually did go to an asylum at one point in time because everybody thought that she was crazy seeing vampires.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So maybe his effects are like let me bring you to your worst time or one of your worst times.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But I wonder what the effect would be for Zander or for Willow or for everybody else, because it seems very specific where Buffy got sent to this dimension, this fantasy land.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Is it like a dementia is what I'm asking?

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[SPEAKER_03]: We're specific for everybody.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it might be closer

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, is it just a hallucinogenic thing which kind of plays upon your fears and, you know, you know, this is something that Buffy never could call well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Or is it just of a big fever dream of nonsense?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it could be that, too, because it doesn't really jive with the timeline in reality if we were to believe, but then again, once you bring in Don and you change the timeline then all these memories could be all artificial.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe she didn't go to an asylum originally and then when they brought Don in, they kind of bashing that as part of her memories.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's hard to say because it would've been post Don at that point, so I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_03]: wild.

16:37.055 --> 16:39.836
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it gets like very like wonky, doesn't it?

16:41.416 --> 16:43.737
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I like the idea.

16:43.757 --> 17:04.562
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's like an interesting piece of extra buffy lore from her pre time of pre show that she did wind up going to an asylum for a couple of days and I feel like it seems very street smart of her very buffy to be like, I know the only way that I'm going to get out of this is be like pretending like

17:06.282 --> 17:06.642
[SPEAKER_03]: fake.

17:06.742 --> 17:09.844
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm just going to say what they want me to say so I can get out.

17:10.725 --> 17:22.673
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I was just looking because I wanted to see exactly what Willow had said when she did her research and found out what the demon was and all she says is I found the demon if it's here description and symptoms perfectly.

17:23.073 --> 17:37.730
[SPEAKER_04]: So it doesn't say like specifically this demon does XYZ that, you know what I mean like it could just be causes hallucinations, it does make me wonder like what hallucinations if someone has like a really difficult life as it is.

17:38.531 --> 17:58.072
[SPEAKER_03]: What are they going to get shown by the guy, you know, like what what bad things would they see or maybe everything is perfect and they have this like uncanny like I can no comfortable because where's the next shoe going to drop like yeah things like step forward wives and everything's just like over perfect that we creepy too.

17:58.753 --> 18:00.135
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it definitely could be.

18:00.175 --> 18:01.356
[SPEAKER_04]: That's really interesting.

18:01.656 --> 18:05.380
[SPEAKER_04]: And you can see anyone else get stabbed, you know?

18:05.400 --> 18:11.227
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, you could also, I mean, look, if you really want to just look at it from a completely different way.

18:11.247 --> 18:11.527
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean,

18:13.034 --> 18:23.523
[SPEAKER_00]: What does she need the most right now in this life that is just she's miserable, you know, her friends have just had this disaster her wedding love is dead.

18:23.563 --> 18:32.592
[SPEAKER_00]: She's just broken up with spike and she can't believe she's with spike in the first place and like, and her mom is dead, you know, and she's trying to do this all alone.

18:33.838 --> 18:43.389
[SPEAKER_00]: See her mom is actually probably the best thing for her right now and that's why when we get to the end of this episode that's such a touching scene because it really is what she needs in the most right now

18:44.165 --> 18:45.325
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not necessarily bad.

18:45.745 --> 18:46.466
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's true.

18:46.546 --> 18:53.448
[SPEAKER_03]: Because there is moments where I'm just like, yeah, I can understand why Buffy and had that instinct of like, yeah, I want to give up.

18:53.468 --> 18:54.668
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I don't want to go back.

18:54.708 --> 19:06.791
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, let me stay here where my parents are still together, where my mom still live, where I don't have to fight all these demons all the time internally and externally.

19:07.451 --> 19:10.512
[SPEAKER_03]: So I totally was like, yeah,

19:14.344 --> 19:15.825
[SPEAKER_03]: real reality or a paperality.

19:15.885 --> 19:17.967
[SPEAKER_03]: It seems safer, seeing this sort of comfortable.

19:18.568 --> 19:23.311
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and in this in this world, she's basically been living in a psych ward for six years.

19:23.952 --> 19:25.773
[SPEAKER_04]: None of Sunnydale, it's real.

19:26.694 --> 19:28.836
[SPEAKER_04]: Like you said, her parents are still together.

19:28.916 --> 19:30.517
[SPEAKER_04]: Don doesn't even exist.

19:31.018 --> 19:31.878
[SPEAKER_04]: She's been diagnosed

19:42.527 --> 20:02.468
[SPEAKER_04]: not only is Dawn not included in this like alternate reality, but you feel like part of it could be it's a relief for Buffy because but like the responsibility of Dawn we so heavily on Buffy, that it may feel a bit of a relief to not have her there.

20:03.108 --> 20:14.056
[SPEAKER_04]: but like the impact of Don finding out that she's not there is like so so sad because Don feels like such a burden and so she's like oh great.

20:14.076 --> 20:17.679
[SPEAKER_04]: So in your alternate life like I don't even exist great.

20:17.739 --> 20:19.180
[SPEAKER_04]: Like that really killed me.

20:19.220 --> 20:21.102
[SPEAKER_04]: I felt so bad for Don.

20:23.924 --> 20:25.645
[SPEAKER_03]: I did not feel bad for Don in that moment.

20:25.805 --> 20:28.067
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, why are you making it about you?

20:30.468 --> 20:32.068
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not about you right now, Don.

20:32.449 --> 20:35.689
[SPEAKER_03]: She's like, so in your perfect reality, I don't even exist.

20:35.789 --> 20:37.970
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, did Buffy say that?

20:38.210 --> 20:39.350
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think so.

20:40.250 --> 20:43.851
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, she kind of did because she's like mumbling between the two worlds.

20:43.871 --> 20:46.091
[SPEAKER_00]: So she did say, she does say, Don's not real.

20:46.331 --> 20:51.692
[SPEAKER_00]: Like in the fantasy, and that's Don and our world hurt her mumble it.

20:51.732 --> 20:54.693
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think there wasn't overlap.

20:54.713 --> 20:56.013
[SPEAKER_00]: So she kind of did say it.

20:56.688 --> 21:23.810
[SPEAKER_03]: And she didn't, but we did not say she said I don't have a sister and she didn't say I don't have a sister isn't that a great thing like there is no like follow through like like my life is so much better in this other world because I don't have a sister I don't know I felt like don't I felt like a lot of people were really making this about them this episode I have the same thing to say about spike I probably have the same thing to say about everybody everyone's like hey, but what about me?

21:25.493 --> 21:38.623
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's tough also for us to know exactly because when we go to Buffy's alternate universe, we don't know what the rest, what she's doing in the regular universe, we don't know what she's saying or how she looks.

21:39.023 --> 21:45.107
[SPEAKER_04]: So she could be literally like verbatim, be saying what is happening in the like institution.

21:45.127 --> 21:48.950
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're kind of, we're left like questioning exactly

21:53.413 --> 21:59.938
[SPEAKER_04]: Don is a teenager like I get she's she's her mom died too, you know, she's really going through it and I think like

22:02.232 --> 22:26.222
[SPEAKER_04]: Buffy has all she has left and on top of that, I mean, we'll get into the Willow and Tara of it all, but like we talked about this too, like Tara leaving really impacted Dawn, and I still think we're kind of feeling the reverberations of that, and like a late hearing comes back and like seems the day this episode, but can we just top down and talk about Willow for a second?

22:26.962 --> 22:31.509
[SPEAKER_04]: because the drama of she went to go see Tara and Tara.

22:32.049 --> 22:34.293
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, my god, a girl kissed her on the cheek.

22:34.433 --> 22:37.337
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, my god, they're obviously having sex stop it.

22:38.038 --> 22:38.819
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, we'll stop.

22:39.019 --> 22:39.961
[SPEAKER_04]: You need to stop right now.

22:40.221 --> 22:40.582
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't.

22:43.412 --> 22:46.493
[SPEAKER_03]: she thought that they were getting better doing better.

22:46.533 --> 22:47.013
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

22:47.033 --> 22:50.274
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that she, I don't know.

22:50.294 --> 22:51.674
[SPEAKER_03]: You need will though.

22:52.055 --> 22:53.295
[SPEAKER_03]: It's nothing good to say.

22:53.315 --> 23:00.717
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the whole thing though is that and what I'm one of the things I really like about this episode is, you know, when the doctor is explaining.

23:01.337 --> 23:27.880
[SPEAKER_00]: to Joyce and Buffy's dad about like what's going on in Buffy's mind and you know Basically commenting on the series itself saying like you know You know as you get more and more involved in this delusion you have to keep making the stories bigger and bigger And bigger you know the fuck heart writing as well as like so you know you start out You know you had you had one vampire and then you had two vampires and then you had a mayor and then it became a government conspiracy was the whole of the whole of the government Then it was a god

23:28.440 --> 23:29.541
[SPEAKER_00]: And now it's what?

23:29.561 --> 23:31.242
[SPEAKER_00]: Three losers in the basement.

23:31.503 --> 23:43.112
[SPEAKER_00]: But I've always felt that progression was perfect because the thing that's going to hurt us in reality more than any of these fanciful figures is what people do to each other.

23:43.192 --> 23:48.376
[SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that it's just our three ordinary nobody's being the big bath this season.

23:48.996 --> 23:51.318
[SPEAKER_00]: But we sort of seen a spin over the last few episodes.

23:52.940 --> 23:55.181
[SPEAKER_00]: Ever since pretty much the the musical,

23:56.233 --> 24:06.495
[SPEAKER_00]: is that the people who are hurting our main characters the most are themselves, you know, Willow can't stop doing the magic, and suggest us the Tabula rasa, and that's what caused us her downfall.

24:06.935 --> 24:17.858
[SPEAKER_00]: Zander was visited by himself last week, and even though it wasn't himself, he was the one who made the choice to call off this wedding because it was his own fears, his own guilt, and his own everything.

24:17.878 --> 24:18.498
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

24:19.058 --> 24:34.877
[SPEAKER_00]: Buffy, you know, now it was like she's going her own head and like like, oh mate, what am I doing to myself and like I'm I'm my own worst enemy for what I'm you know my battle with myself I just think it's really cool and will again like you know her own fears like clearly I'm projecting but I don't care I like

24:35.417 --> 24:49.200
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to ruin this thing with Tara that I've worked so hard to rebuild everyone's their own worst enemy this season and I think that makes it the realist of them all And that's what I think it's just encapsulated very well though from a writing standpoint like how do you keep raising the stakes?

24:49.260 --> 24:57.202
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you really can at some point go bigger than God So let's just do it to ourselves because there's really no one to blame at that point

24:59.094 --> 25:01.155
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's a really fair assessment that it is.

25:01.175 --> 25:13.978
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I like the idea of like, people hurt other people way more than like a big guy monster would theoretically, especially on the related ability scale.

25:14.999 --> 25:22.421
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that makes a lot of sense, especially like the self doubt, self harm, all that.

25:26.229 --> 25:28.912
[SPEAKER_04]: What's speaking of characters I hate?

25:29.413 --> 25:31.895
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, Santa makes a return.

25:32.576 --> 25:33.517
[SPEAKER_04]: This episode.

25:34.138 --> 25:36.180
[SPEAKER_04]: And boy howdy I was pissed.

25:36.480 --> 25:38.382
[SPEAKER_04]: Because the minute number one.

25:38.743 --> 25:38.983
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

25:39.003 --> 25:39.944
[SPEAKER_04]: We need to talk about this.

25:40.004 --> 25:45.991
[SPEAKER_04]: Because obviously, like Buffy and Willow, were friends with Santa Feers, didn't like their Scooby's, and whatever.

25:46.011 --> 25:46.071
[SPEAKER_04]: Um,

25:47.352 --> 25:50.553
[SPEAKER_04]: Literally like no one's checking on Ananya on your full-on-left.

25:50.673 --> 25:52.133
[SPEAKER_04]: She closed the magic box.

25:52.293 --> 25:53.514
[SPEAKER_04]: She left a few days ago.

25:53.934 --> 25:56.194
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's like, oh, it was really sad she was crying.

25:56.454 --> 26:00.715
[SPEAKER_04]: And then Zander walks in and we give him a massive hug.

26:01.015 --> 26:02.156
[SPEAKER_04]: Are you serious?

26:02.496 --> 26:04.196
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, absolutely not.

26:04.316 --> 26:07.177
[SPEAKER_04]: I would have some choice-ass words for this man.

26:07.477 --> 26:10.838
[SPEAKER_04]: And he has the audacity to come in here and be like,

26:11.078 --> 26:12.500
[SPEAKER_04]: It wasn't a bell breaking up.

26:12.620 --> 26:14.142
[SPEAKER_03]: Ain't love her, ain't miss her.

26:14.443 --> 26:16.505
[SPEAKER_03]: No, absolutely not.

26:16.886 --> 26:19.650
[SPEAKER_03]: I just don't know, Jess, like I just feel like...

26:20.482 --> 26:22.303
[SPEAKER_03]: you're a very loyal person.

26:22.323 --> 26:28.308
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like you would take your friends side even if you don't fully agree with them.

26:28.368 --> 26:30.930
[SPEAKER_03]: It stinks because it's more about like checking in though.

26:30.950 --> 26:33.672
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I feel like no one is checking it on on you.

26:33.732 --> 26:35.893
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they knew that she was crying when she left.

26:35.993 --> 26:38.035
[SPEAKER_03]: So obviously, they've spotted her.

26:38.135 --> 26:39.176
[SPEAKER_03]: They have seen her.

26:39.496 --> 26:42.058
[SPEAKER_03]: They have seen her more recently than they've seen him.

26:42.997 --> 26:45.017
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that it's just that I would.

26:45.698 --> 26:52.899
[SPEAKER_04]: I agree with you, like I am a loyal person and I definitely, I wouldn't like, you know, hit him in the face of the frying pan the moment he walks in the door.

26:53.399 --> 27:05.422
[SPEAKER_04]: I would, however, be like, okay, if you love her though, probably wasn't the best time to break things off like at the altar and like you probably should also be giving her space because like what you did is awful.

27:05.902 --> 27:30.244
[SPEAKER_03]: in the first like one minute like they walk through the door and you haven't seen him in a while and you've seen on you have sooner and you watched the door and it's like hey you asked what are you doing in here get out of here yeah room tour no you'd be like thank goodness you're okay and like let me hug you because you just went through something crazy also I don't know I think that's not to be too much of a topologist form because

27:31.325 --> 27:37.131
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, he did obviously was horrible, but he does own it immediately.

27:37.251 --> 27:38.913
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like he's making excuses for anything.

27:38.933 --> 27:40.555
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, I screwed up.

27:40.615 --> 27:41.916
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the worst mistake I've made in my life.

27:42.037 --> 27:45.841
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that doesn't mean he deserves to have it all fixed in a heartbeat.

27:46.061 --> 27:50.005
[SPEAKER_00]: But at least, that's kind of the first sentiment I have to go see here.

27:50.045 --> 27:50.946
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to make sure she's okay.

27:51.587 --> 27:52.107
[SPEAKER_00]: I messed up.

27:52.888 --> 27:53.749
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh boy, did I mess up?

27:54.090 --> 27:55.772
[SPEAKER_00]: Gosh, I didn't realize how much this was messing it up.

27:56.213 --> 27:57.334
[SPEAKER_00]: So at least there was that.

27:57.835 --> 28:03.623
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're coming going, hey, let's go to the bronze, you know, that would completely different different reception I think.

28:04.646 --> 28:09.489
[SPEAKER_03]: as Zander's biggest fan, as big of a fan, as you did, you named your son after him.

28:09.870 --> 28:16.754
[SPEAKER_03]: How did you feel watching this the first time around, like, you know, leaving her at the altar, essentially?

28:17.195 --> 28:21.237
[SPEAKER_03]: It couldn't have felt good to see a favorite character do that to somebody.

28:21.357 --> 28:24.159
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, I mean, this whole season is very uncomfortable.

28:24.440 --> 28:27.582
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just because, like I said, I think they're all,

28:28.780 --> 28:34.324
[SPEAKER_00]: they're all doing it to themselves and that's like so that it's really you can't there isn't like anyone to blame for it.

28:34.344 --> 28:38.147
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like, you know, you know, people are plotting against them now.

28:38.187 --> 28:49.436
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like they're really it's everything that they're doing is is every time they take a step forward, it's two steps back and what we we we name their sons in because we really like the name.

28:49.476 --> 28:49.957
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fun name.

28:52.498 --> 28:59.201
[SPEAKER_00]: And we had a girl who had been dealing cordially, so, you know, we just, we like the show, we like the day.

29:00.241 --> 29:04.623
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's, it's hard to watch because he is wrong.

29:04.823 --> 29:14.167
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, you can say, well, you can understand, I know you guys were just like all barrels blazing against him last episode.

29:15.447 --> 29:32.019
[SPEAKER_00]: you can kind of understand that he was tricked and like and that like he put all the thoughts in his head but yeah they were there to begin with and he had gold feet and again timing was awful not a good thing to do he's not the hero of this story by any stretch of the imagination

29:33.545 --> 29:37.808
[SPEAKER_00]: at the same time, is there anything good happening to anybody on the show right now?

29:38.429 --> 29:39.710
[SPEAKER_00]: Is anybody in a good place?

29:39.730 --> 29:46.275
[SPEAKER_04]: It's really bleak, and that is like my biggest slight against season six largely is how bleak it is.

29:46.335 --> 29:50.118
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm not saying that it's like necessarily a bad thing.

29:50.638 --> 29:56.563
[SPEAKER_04]: I think this world can be really bleak, but I think it's also very difficult when the tone feels like

29:57.283 --> 29:59.905
[SPEAKER_04]: You go from like the tone is fairly consistent.

29:59.925 --> 30:03.727
[SPEAKER_04]: Season one is a little more like wacky monster of the week sort of a thing.

30:04.087 --> 30:10.030
[SPEAKER_04]: But I feel like then we kind of reach a little bit more of a consistent tone and then it really feels like whiplash with season six.

30:10.451 --> 30:12.172
[SPEAKER_04]: Where now it's very bleak.

30:12.352 --> 30:13.452
[SPEAKER_04]: Everything is sad.

30:13.913 --> 30:15.293
[SPEAKER_04]: No one's having a good time.

30:15.614 --> 30:19.616
[SPEAKER_04]: My ships that I wanted to be really fun and cute and great isn't.

30:20.236 --> 30:22.497
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, it's not as fun.

30:22.658 --> 30:23.338
[SPEAKER_04]: I like wanted.

30:23.678 --> 30:25.439
[SPEAKER_04]: I want people to be having a better time.

30:28.040 --> 30:38.148
[SPEAKER_00]: And, I mean, I don't think it's a spoiler to say that it's not getting any better in terms of like happy happy joy joy.

30:39.609 --> 30:46.053
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's not like next week we're going to, we're going to, everyone's going to get back to their relationship said that the trio is going to be defeated.

30:46.133 --> 30:52.138
[SPEAKER_00]: And we just spend the next three episodes just having a party like, and even we had a party a few weeks ago.

30:52.158 --> 30:53.499
[SPEAKER_00]: And that didn't go well either.

30:53.879 --> 30:56.981
[SPEAKER_03]: party didn't not go, but that was a fun episode.

30:57.442 --> 31:05.167
[SPEAKER_03]: I hear what you're saying just like I think that it's a little jostly as well because well, jostly.

31:05.347 --> 31:08.890
[SPEAKER_03]: I know I was like, I was like, boy, why?

31:08.970 --> 31:15.595
[SPEAKER_03]: Because of how we go from the silly bits to something that's very serious.

31:15.635 --> 31:17.956
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think that gets kind of it feels a little

31:18.777 --> 31:43.425
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, we're going one way and then it goes another, um, yeah, I think that, I don't know, I think that it's, it's always very relatable to being in your 20s because, you know, like, I say this all the time, especially to a lot of the kids that I work with who are either interns or through the sorority that I mentor.

31:44.006 --> 31:45.366
[SPEAKER_03]: Your 20s are like the most

31:48.247 --> 32:02.917
[SPEAKER_03]: always going like you you have very little direction of like what's going to go and you have very little support from your friends because everybody so absorbed with themselves.

32:02.937 --> 32:05.218
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's just like a very hard time in for life.

32:05.278 --> 32:07.480
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very underrated and I think that a lot of people

32:07.840 --> 32:11.505
[SPEAKER_03]: forget how hard being in your 20s is because you make a lot of mistakes.

32:11.625 --> 32:19.315
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, like I said, you just don't have a lot of support when he made those mistakes because everybody else is dealing with the mistakes that they make.

32:19.395 --> 32:22.619
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think that it's a very relatable thing to.

32:23.760 --> 32:32.366
[SPEAKER_03]: being more early 20s and like I said like make these like things that think that make you feel like it's your running your life.

32:32.426 --> 32:38.471
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm thinking like specifically about like the Willow drama and the Zander stuff.

32:38.491 --> 32:43.955
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean obviously Buffy's issues are a lot more serious and a lot bigger than typical

32:45.490 --> 33:05.679
[SPEAKER_03]: younger stuff, but I think it's also relatable that like, you know, she can't really share what she's going through with her friends because she doesn't think that anybody will understand or she reaches out to a guy spike who's like kind of bad for her and is toxic and is like in this situation ship.

33:06.179 --> 33:08.100
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think it's like really relatable.

33:09.140 --> 33:10.321
[SPEAKER_03]: I think being in your early 20s,

33:15.623 --> 33:16.884
[SPEAKER_00]: and let's let's pile it on.

33:17.245 --> 33:18.426
[SPEAKER_00]: When is this episode airing?

33:18.906 --> 33:20.087
[SPEAKER_00]: How soon after 9-11?

33:20.387 --> 33:22.989
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is the this is the first season after 9-11.

33:23.330 --> 33:24.351
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, right.

33:24.651 --> 33:26.572
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's over, over bleak.

33:27.113 --> 33:33.758
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're writing it, you know, as they go, you know, you don't get too far ahead back then in those days, you won't probably like a month.

33:34.739 --> 33:45.080
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a shooting versus writing so like the mood of the country was was also just like this everything's bad nothing's fun you can have a little moment to joy here and there but

33:46.473 --> 34:08.039
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, like this is this is how we were living and yes, this was supposed to be a scapeous entertainment, but like quite frankly a lot of times we We kind of just wanted to watch this our our fictional characters lives are also as bad as ours kind of Yeah, like the So yeah, I mean, it just reflected the time and so

34:09.950 --> 34:16.592
[SPEAKER_00]: I was watching going back and watching now, like I struck by how many episodes in a row are so bleak.

34:16.652 --> 34:18.992
[SPEAKER_00]: But that is kind of what the mood of the country was.

34:19.032 --> 34:33.156
[SPEAKER_00]: It was kind of cathartic for the writers, I think, to put those feelings on and first to watch it with characters that we knew, and then I think that's why it worked at the time, probably, and it hit differently than it does now.

34:34.430 --> 34:34.730
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

34:35.351 --> 34:36.972
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think that's spot on, probably.

34:36.992 --> 34:41.935
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't really consider the time in which it was coming out.

34:42.135 --> 34:48.519
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it is just a barrage of sadness, which isn't, again, it depends on the type of show.

34:49.019 --> 34:54.523
[SPEAKER_04]: I can go for some sadness, but I think it's like, I want to be prepared for that.

34:54.603 --> 35:03.709
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think when the tone is so different in the other seasons, and then we get to the season, and it's like, oh my God, it is so devastating out here.

35:04.089 --> 35:06.250
[SPEAKER_03]: You know that you're going into this as us.

35:06.970 --> 35:14.813
[SPEAKER_03]: We prepared a good cry and some depression, but like you don't necessarily know that you're going into Buffy the Vampires layer.

35:14.833 --> 35:20.594
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and it's just so bleak, especially because I was like, you know, I was all on board for a Buffy.

35:21.055 --> 35:22.075
[SPEAKER_04]: And how is this?

35:22.435 --> 35:24.036
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, we're going for it.

35:24.056 --> 35:27.877
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just think, you know, after the musical everyone's more feeling, it just, it just...

35:28.497 --> 35:31.439
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, okay, well, that was our, that was our, hey, but he was there.

35:31.459 --> 35:32.740
[SPEAKER_02]: That was only God.

35:32.760 --> 35:45.289
[SPEAKER_00]: And even that was changed with, well, you know, even the first, apart from the whole memory, white repercussions, that was a fun episode as well with Randy Johnson, but, um, alright.

35:46.207 --> 35:49.148
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but yeah, so it's a tough watch.

35:49.208 --> 35:49.808
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a tough watch.

35:49.868 --> 35:53.730
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think I think we're all feeling it.

35:53.750 --> 36:00.552
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that you would claim, you know, get it back to the the core group was like, we're all we have and let's just not.

36:01.559 --> 36:15.487
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we lost, we lost on you to this horrible thick twice as underneath, but we can't push the end or out too, because on his night here right now, if you know, yeah, if you came in the door, maybe they would treat her with welcome arms as well, just because we got to stick together, but she's not there.

36:15.527 --> 36:17.828
[SPEAKER_00]: She, as I said, she left.

36:18.228 --> 36:19.909
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know where she is.

36:19.929 --> 36:27.033
[SPEAKER_03]: I am so excited, though, to see where she went to because I agents vengeance vengeance vengeance, because like,

36:27.293 --> 36:38.118
[SPEAKER_03]: Honestly, like would you rather on you being stuck at the magic shop and Zandar's wife or would you know, you're like fuck some shit up.

36:38.218 --> 36:41.379
[SPEAKER_03]: Obviously we want her to get her revenge her vengeance.

36:41.479 --> 36:42.440
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that this is

36:43.260 --> 36:46.483
[SPEAKER_03]: like good for the entertainment purposes.

36:46.564 --> 36:47.224
[SPEAKER_03]: It's good for me.

36:47.244 --> 36:48.746
[SPEAKER_04]: I wanted Willow to break bad.

36:49.046 --> 36:50.207
[SPEAKER_04]: So badly.

36:50.227 --> 36:56.093
[SPEAKER_04]: And I feel like now we're going to get the like on you of engine story.

36:56.274 --> 36:59.157
[SPEAKER_04]: And that will at least satiate me in some way.

37:00.418 --> 37:03.321
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I really was counting on Willow going full big bad.

37:03.741 --> 37:04.442
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's

37:06.284 --> 37:07.465
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not, it's not.

37:07.585 --> 37:12.068
[SPEAKER_04]: She's so sad, simpined for Sarah, Tara, like all day long.

37:12.168 --> 37:14.470
[SPEAKER_04]: Then nothing, she's not going to do anything like that.

37:14.490 --> 37:19.413
[SPEAKER_04]: He does one rejection from Tara and then she'll spin out.

37:19.734 --> 37:20.214
[SPEAKER_04]: I hope so.

37:21.735 --> 37:31.823
[SPEAKER_04]: But, yeah, Zander is also like, he's like nasty with Spike because he wants to take it out on someone, and I did love, I did look as again.

37:31.843 --> 37:42.893
[SPEAKER_04]: I, all I wanted was people to yell at Zander, and I did love Spike saying he's the king of the big exit, heard you brought the house down, get him, get Zander.

37:43.533 --> 37:46.135
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, because Spike is like frustrated too, right?

37:46.155 --> 37:46.956
[SPEAKER_04]: He's dealing with like the

37:50.679 --> 37:56.413
[SPEAKER_04]: two bros who don't know how to handle themselves who need therapy, you just go and add each other so much fun.

37:59.169 --> 38:01.590
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, Spike was very pissy this episode.

38:01.610 --> 38:03.570
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, yeah, he got broken up with.

38:03.590 --> 38:04.811
[SPEAKER_03]: Of course he is pissy.

38:05.171 --> 38:06.311
[SPEAKER_03]: Three episodes ago.

38:07.171 --> 38:08.352
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't that long ago.

38:09.212 --> 38:13.073
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the last episode they were already broken up because of the wedding.

38:13.153 --> 38:14.314
[SPEAKER_03]: All the wedding, yeah.

38:14.714 --> 38:17.735
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, honestly, it's been two months in my time.

38:17.755 --> 38:19.015
[SPEAKER_03]: It was no idea.

38:19.295 --> 38:22.476
[SPEAKER_03]: Charlie, George said, half the length of the really perfect.

38:22.516 --> 38:25.397
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I didn't like he should have gotten over it in a month ago.

38:26.978 --> 38:28.679
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, he's certainly not over two weeks.

38:28.699 --> 38:30.201
[SPEAKER_00]: So guy has lived for over a hundred years.

38:30.241 --> 38:30.521
[SPEAKER_00]: Get up.

38:31.401 --> 38:32.502
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.

38:32.963 --> 38:33.203
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

38:33.843 --> 38:36.746
[SPEAKER_04]: He's certainly not over it.

38:37.166 --> 38:38.307
[SPEAKER_04]: This is so interesting.

38:38.367 --> 38:42.450
[SPEAKER_04]: I think this is largely in my head, oh, partially, I should say.

38:43.531 --> 38:50.797
[SPEAKER_04]: What leads Buffy to not taking the original antidote that Willow gives to her is spike comes in.

38:51.457 --> 38:56.380
[SPEAKER_04]: And he basically is like, listen, that antidote isn't going to fix your martyrdom.

38:57.480 --> 38:58.601
[SPEAKER_04]: You can't help yourself.

38:58.861 --> 39:00.382
[SPEAKER_04]: You're not drawn to the dark.

39:00.402 --> 39:02.663
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I thought you're addicted to the misery.

39:03.123 --> 39:07.345
[SPEAKER_04]: That's why you won't tell your friends about us because you might actually be happy if you did.

39:08.826 --> 39:12.668
[SPEAKER_04]: Like he's like, you'd be at peace in the dark with me.

39:13.248 --> 39:14.569
[SPEAKER_04]: But you're too twisted for that.

39:16.450 --> 39:21.374
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, and then he threatens her and he says either you tell your friends about it or I will.

39:21.934 --> 39:31.541
[SPEAKER_04]: And I feel like it is so tempting for Buffy at that point to be like, if I don't take this, I can just go live in this alternate universe where I'm not dealing with the spike drama.

39:31.841 --> 39:33.262
[SPEAKER_04]: My mom is still alive.

39:33.582 --> 39:38.846
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I feel like this really pushes her over the edge is not wanting to deal with spike.

39:40.087 --> 39:46.540
[SPEAKER_04]: That is a huge threat, Sarah, to be like, I'm going to out our relationship to all your friends, whether you like it or not.

39:48.645 --> 39:51.511
[SPEAKER_03]: But, I mean, would he though?

39:52.775 --> 40:10.045
[SPEAKER_03]: at the end of the day like now still has like he's still wants puppies so he's still gonna do what she wants him to do at the end of the day and she threats um but he came i he might i yeah i mean like it's it's a little bit of blackmail i think i agree with you that

40:11.768 --> 40:17.754
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just like another thing for Buffy to want to escape.

40:18.054 --> 40:21.658
[SPEAKER_03]: It just reminds me of the fact that she wasn't heaven.

40:22.478 --> 40:23.259
[SPEAKER_03]: Like she was...

40:26.986 --> 40:40.610
[SPEAKER_03]: having, she had that escape that she's had been craving and something like this offer of not taking the antidote and going back to this alternate reality is another form of like escapism.

40:41.250 --> 40:48.632
[SPEAKER_03]: It's another form of like self-harm or escaping from her current reality.

40:48.652 --> 40:52.173
[SPEAKER_03]: In whatever way that would look like.

40:52.233 --> 40:53.293
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think that is just

40:54.515 --> 41:09.539
[SPEAKER_03]: It's it's it's basically what I'm saying is like she's trying to find her way out and this is just like the spike thing is like another another thing to add to the I don't want to be here.

41:10.920 --> 41:14.281
[SPEAKER_03]: Because once again, like she was in heaven, she felt like warm and safe.

41:14.841 --> 41:33.374
[SPEAKER_03]: and things were really good, she didn't have to deal with fighting all the time, like she had her out, and then she got brought back, and now she's kind of like looking for that out again in these moments, until um, until she realizes like who she is, and she's buffy, and like she can't just like let go.

41:35.101 --> 41:47.692
[SPEAKER_00]: although the counterpoint in the writing which was like that was very clever as a doctor's talk of the parents and like saying like you know there was there was that stress last summer when she was here in Lucid and everything was fine and cool which was corresponds with the time when she was in heaven.

41:49.074 --> 41:53.758
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah we know she wasn't in their world for a while.

41:55.299 --> 42:06.054
[SPEAKER_00]: did she get pulled back in by her friends or did she see her parents fight in this reality and go back into the fancy land where she has to deal with it like you can take it's I think what you said.

42:07.156 --> 42:15.740
[SPEAKER_00]: and transpose it and that's great about it is that because it's fictional and it's ambiguous so you could look at it from that way.

42:15.800 --> 42:27.025
[SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing in this episode that definitively answers that she's not still in a mental asylum and fantasizing that.

42:27.465 --> 42:29.126
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, just even the way it's

42:33.128 --> 42:49.549
[SPEAKER_00]: have your vampire boyfriend number two and fight gods in your super hero and even when she's like taking them down to the basement and fighting with Dawn she's just like yeah this makes sense I'm a superhero like sure like that's more realistic than me being a mental institution.

42:50.470 --> 42:53.154
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I could hear her brain would be fried a little bit.

42:53.775 --> 43:00.904
[SPEAKER_04]: The other thing is, depending on how much Dawn was paying attention, which Dawn, we know, is a Snoopy's new person.

43:00.924 --> 43:05.170
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, so she may have been paying attention, because Buffy,

43:05.630 --> 43:15.897
[SPEAKER_04]: straight up spills the beans about her in spike two dawn when she says oh and I have a second vampire boy friend like literally who else would that be like there's no other possibility than it for it to be spike.

43:16.397 --> 43:22.801
[SPEAKER_04]: If Don was paying attention she may have been a bit distracted because Buffy was kind of like trying to attack her and keep her hostage and all of that.

43:23.361 --> 43:23.542
[SPEAKER_04]: But

43:24.482 --> 43:30.747
[SPEAKER_04]: Someone else knows, we know, tear a nose, which she's not gonna tell you anything because tear is queen of keeping those lips sealed.

43:32.148 --> 43:34.990
[SPEAKER_04]: But now also dawn knows.

43:35.190 --> 43:38.132
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's kind of only a matter of time before the rest of the Scoobies find out.

43:38.232 --> 43:48.579
[SPEAKER_04]: I do feel like, of all the people to have the worst possible reactions, Zander is gonna be number one with a bullet, worst possible reaction, because he loaves spike and he hated angel.

43:49.020 --> 43:51.882
[SPEAKER_04]: So like, it's only gonna be bad stuff, I think from Zander.

43:54.349 --> 43:57.950
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, oh my god, oh my god, she just spilled the beans.

43:58.150 --> 43:59.230
[SPEAKER_03]: She just spilled the beans.

44:00.010 --> 44:05.411
[SPEAKER_03]: Didn't like, somebody say something about them having sex as well.

44:05.611 --> 44:06.772
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't spice it.

44:06.792 --> 44:09.692
[SPEAKER_03]: Someone is Zander and Zander is like, what would you say?

44:09.752 --> 44:11.452
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, spite was like never mind.

44:11.853 --> 44:12.953
[SPEAKER_03]: Something along those lines.

44:12.973 --> 44:14.053
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like this episode?

44:14.733 --> 44:15.393
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought so.

44:15.613 --> 44:16.253
[SPEAKER_00]: He said stuff.

44:16.373 --> 44:17.454
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know exactly what he said.

44:17.494 --> 44:18.714
[SPEAKER_00]: He said something that kind of...

44:20.488 --> 44:23.930
[SPEAKER_00]: there wasn't paying attention when they were fight in the Yeah, the demon.

44:24.210 --> 44:28.832
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is exactly what I mean with 20 somethings only pay attention to themselves.

44:29.132 --> 44:41.738
[SPEAKER_03]: If anybody was actually aware of their friends and listening to their friends, this would have been in a not a secret a billion years ago because nobody is doing a good job.

44:41.818 --> 44:48.501
[SPEAKER_03]: Zander literally walked in on them having relations and literally did not realize,

44:50.522 --> 45:00.890
[SPEAKER_03]: up he was invisible and he also like magically couldn't tell the funny female voice was his good friend of like eight years.

45:01.190 --> 45:01.931
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think so.

45:02.031 --> 45:08.295
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, where are you talking about when when they're taking Buffy back home and Spike says, put a little ice on the back of her neck.

45:08.335 --> 45:09.156
[SPEAKER_04]: She likes that.

45:09.736 --> 45:10.937
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I wasn't.

45:10.957 --> 45:11.598
[SPEAKER_03]: I was okay.

45:12.238 --> 45:15.180
[SPEAKER_03]: I did remember that, but that's something that's another point.

45:15.260 --> 45:17.202
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just like, well, he kind of said that to himself.

45:17.662 --> 45:22.303
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no one was really close to that he said that he was like, well, I know what she like.

45:22.323 --> 45:23.303
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I found it.

45:24.043 --> 45:33.005
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, yes, okay, uh, spikes as she's having the wiggins is she thinks none of us are real self centered if you ask me on the other hand.

45:33.025 --> 45:34.165
[SPEAKER_04]: It might explain some things.

45:34.365 --> 45:36.466
[SPEAKER_04]: This all being in that twisted brainer hers.

45:36.526 --> 45:40.327
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, thanks up some chip in my head, make me soft fall and love with her.

45:40.747 --> 45:43.067
[SPEAKER_04]: Then turned me into her sod and sex slave.

45:43.087 --> 45:43.867
[SPEAKER_00]: And there he goes.

45:43.887 --> 45:45.008
[SPEAKER_04]: And then it's in her says, what?

45:45.068 --> 45:45.968
[SPEAKER_04]: And he says nothing.

45:48.969 --> 45:53.712
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I also think that Spike is probably just to gap in all the time and Zander is just like, I'm not going to.

45:53.772 --> 45:54.072
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

45:54.553 --> 45:55.914
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he's a yapper for sure.

45:57.034 --> 46:04.279
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, so Buffy like chooses for a minute to stay in this like asylum kind of reality.

46:05.240 --> 46:08.302
[SPEAKER_04]: And she pours the antidote down the trash.

46:17.328 --> 46:43.107
[SPEAKER_04]: Tara thankfully, when all of this is going down, Tara comes into the house, does her little magic magic knocks the demon down, they're able to subdue it long enough and buffy kind of comes to her senses in a scene, AJ, you mentioned earlier with Joyce, where she's kind of saying goodbye to Joyce, and it was like honestly pre heartbreaking to watch her basically,

46:44.323 --> 46:52.648
[SPEAKER_04]: get the good buy she didn't get to give her mom when her mom died because she didn't it was so sudden she didn't get a chance to say goodbye.

46:54.749 --> 47:11.940
[SPEAKER_04]: I really like I feel like a like you said AJ this is a common sort of trope of the what if sort of episode of alternate reality sort of episode this made it worth it for me I don't know the episode works anywhere near as well if we don't have Joyce back and this this made it worth it was this final scene with them together.

47:12.638 --> 47:17.265
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't think there's any lure for her to stay in this world, like what's different about this world.

47:17.866 --> 47:24.415
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it well, it mums a lot and like, you know, for her to get that motherly advice that she has not had all season long.

47:25.777 --> 47:27.820
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, to get that.

47:29.384 --> 47:45.172
[SPEAKER_00]: you're strong, you can do it, you're powerful, that's what you need it to hear, and she got that pept off from her mom, and she got to hear it, and real or not, that is real to her now, and she immediately is like,

47:46.225 --> 48:05.132
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I can say, and then she says, goodbye, she gets to say goodbye, and that's such a healing moment for her that, you know, demon juice, caution through her veins or not, like she's, all right, I'm ready to fight now and she chooses to go back and I think that's really cool.

48:05.552 --> 48:08.353
[SPEAKER_00]: And then yeah, there was a tear in my during that speech, absolutely.

48:10.087 --> 48:21.479
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's kind of an interesting bittersweet thing when you lose a parent and you have dreams about them about experiences that you wish you had.

48:21.499 --> 48:31.850
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that something that stands out is that while I was part of how I had a dream of me telling my dad that I was and it's kind of

48:32.400 --> 48:54.462
[SPEAKER_03]: sweet because like I never like will have that opportunity to but it's also like kind of sad because it's not it's not real but I remember this dream in particular like I was telling him that was having a boy and like my dad it was talked about how he wanted a boy and he never he had two daughters so I think it's like kind of

48:55.784 --> 49:10.312
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, it's nice because like I won't have that opportunity to experience these things, but like some once in a blue moon for whatever reason I have a little dream and it's like, oh, this is like a snippet into like what it could have been.

49:10.812 --> 49:20.818
[SPEAKER_03]: So maybe it's something that like helps you move forward in the sadness of not experiencing or not having a parent anymore.

49:21.138 --> 49:21.338
[SPEAKER_03]: So.

49:22.255 --> 49:25.598
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because it's interesting what Joyce says.

49:25.678 --> 49:37.088
[SPEAKER_04]: Whether or not it is truly Joyce and another dimension saying these things, whether it's Buffy thinking this is what Joyce would be saying to her, it doesn't matter because the effect is still the same.

49:37.108 --> 49:41.992
[SPEAKER_04]: Of Joyce's words of your two good to give in, you can beat this thing.

49:42.932 --> 49:46.115
[SPEAKER_04]: The world feels like a hard place sometimes but you have people who love you.

49:46.395 --> 49:49.338
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, she's talking about like Buffy's mom and dad.

49:49.698 --> 49:52.181
[SPEAKER_04]: but Buffy is thinking, I have the Scoobies.

49:52.221 --> 49:55.946
[SPEAKER_04]: I have people that are relying on me that also support me.

49:57.447 --> 49:58.448
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's that.

49:58.529 --> 50:05.677
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like those words that give her the strength to keep pushing because like really Buffy has had the worst time this season.

50:05.717 --> 50:07.379
[SPEAKER_04]: Like it has been so bad for her.

50:09.321 --> 50:20.752
[SPEAKER_04]: I think all she's really wanted was to have the support of her mom and she's getting it, even though it, again, whether or not it's actually real and real in quotes.

50:21.332 --> 50:22.673
[SPEAKER_04]: I think there is also still the same.

50:22.693 --> 50:24.395
[SPEAKER_04]: The impact is still the same.

50:25.276 --> 50:28.199
[SPEAKER_04]: It's enough to push her to want to fight.

50:28.859 --> 50:38.202
[SPEAKER_04]: to help her friends and kill this demon and make the antidote and kind of not even that, but push past all of that to live her life again, right?

50:38.242 --> 50:43.284
[SPEAKER_04]: Like she's been in such a dark place and kind of self-sabotaging all over the place.

50:43.684 --> 50:44.404
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, let's face it.

50:44.424 --> 50:47.925
[SPEAKER_04]: We start the episode with her at the frickin burger place.

50:47.965 --> 50:49.065
[SPEAKER_04]: I forget the name of again.

50:49.125 --> 50:51.246
[SPEAKER_04]: Like thank you.

50:51.266 --> 50:51.926
[SPEAKER_04]: Double meat.

50:53.967 --> 50:56.549
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like she's still working there and it's like sad.

50:56.569 --> 51:01.613
[SPEAKER_04]: I truly, Sarah, the episode that she was working there, I thought it was going to be one and done.

51:01.693 --> 51:02.854
[SPEAKER_04]: She has been there so many times.

51:02.894 --> 51:04.616
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, I feel so bad for her any time.

51:04.636 --> 51:07.018
[SPEAKER_04]: She's in that freaking outfit uniform.

51:07.298 --> 51:09.620
[SPEAKER_03]: They even got the women from psych back.

51:10.060 --> 51:12.242
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the manager, yeah, she's there still.

51:12.522 --> 51:13.203
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

51:13.803 --> 51:17.626
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, I think like this, these comments from Joyce really are what,

51:18.407 --> 51:44.032
[SPEAKER_03]: push her forward and I was happy Joyce got all of it like don't give a single word their buffies dot he sucks like let Joyce be the one please and thank you she was happy that Hank was there too she was like oh dad you're there too yeah she was the only one he's that ex I mean he's very absenty hey he's very absenty man and you know the last time I saw him on TV before that he was

51:49.084 --> 52:10.824
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but Buffy kind of makes her decision and so we see the doctor in the in the other universe basically being like she's gone and her parents are crying but she's decided like no she's gonna actually like be present live in this world and that's kind of where our episode ends.

52:10.864 --> 52:11.545
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like it's like

52:12.657 --> 52:17.501
[SPEAKER_04]: on a slightly more positive note than most of these episodes have been lately.

52:17.521 --> 52:30.673
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't have any feeling that this is going to turn around completely for us, but you know, there's a teeny, tiny sliver of hope, I guess.

52:32.432 --> 52:45.061
[SPEAKER_03]: I I thought that the ending was like one of like for me it was like one of those like creepy endings where she's like oh like what's the truth uh it was Yeah, that's fair It's just like ends.

52:45.441 --> 52:46.862
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Buffy likes to do that.

52:46.922 --> 52:55.468
[SPEAKER_04]: It just ends in the middle of like you're like, oh, they're going to say a sentence like the episode with the Riley Buffy thing where they're sitting on the beds looking at each other remember that we were like so annoyed

52:56.283 --> 52:56.503
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

52:56.943 --> 52:57.444
[SPEAKER_04]: Just ends.

52:58.824 --> 52:59.204
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

53:00.465 --> 53:04.987
[SPEAKER_04]: But that was our episode of Buffy, um, a normal again.

53:05.007 --> 53:06.167
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't even know.

53:06.187 --> 53:06.648
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't even know.

53:06.668 --> 53:08.048
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I mean, and now we're that was 17.

53:08.108 --> 53:14.311
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like we're like lost because we were gone for so long, but like we are like almost at the end of the season somehow.

53:15.234 --> 53:22.797
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm like I said, you're watching in real time, you watch this, and there's a lot of fun, watercolor, or debate, like, what does that mean?

53:22.837 --> 53:23.257
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it real?

53:23.277 --> 53:24.498
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not having, you know, kind of thing.

53:25.278 --> 53:31.140
[SPEAKER_00]: And you wait about six weeks or so, and then you hit the ground running.

53:31.300 --> 53:36.582
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like resolution, build, build, build, build, will follow up.

53:36.602 --> 53:42.645
[SPEAKER_03]: That's true, the end of the season of Buffy, like, around now is typically where we kind of take off.

53:43.185 --> 53:45.126
[SPEAKER_03]: We have things to look forward to just.

53:45.266 --> 53:48.268
[SPEAKER_03]: It is like a we have to fix things.

53:48.308 --> 53:52.651
[SPEAKER_03]: We have not enough five more six more episodes five, I don't know, three to one.

53:52.671 --> 53:53.832
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to be right.

53:54.432 --> 53:58.054
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm I'm excited to continue and I like this episode.

53:58.135 --> 53:59.716
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's interesting to

54:09.218 --> 54:19.601
[SPEAKER_00]: And not for nothing, like, you know, this is what you get, not that I think we should ever go back to 23 episodes seasons on television because I don't know that anyone has the attention span for the patients for that.

54:19.761 --> 54:29.564
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, there's so many streaming service shows now that are like six date episodes long for a season and it's like there's not enough time to play with episodes like this.

54:34.313 --> 54:36.595
[SPEAKER_00]: You get at the final episode of, let's say, Stranger Things.

54:36.635 --> 54:54.267
[SPEAKER_00]: We're just like, wow, all these loose threads hanging and like, if we could have taken our time from one episode, like this in there and seen something play out where it was entirely, you know, this, you know, inside the mind and I'm, no, no, you're gonna go to see Broadway, too, to our musical Broadway, to get to that, you know.

54:54.988 --> 54:59.911
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just kind of silly, how, you know, the skill of writing of these shows.

54:59.932 --> 55:01.112
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason I think these shows,

55:02.233 --> 55:09.320
[SPEAKER_00]: 25 years now after the fact are still watchable is because there was such care taken to to pace it a lot better.

55:09.961 --> 55:10.201
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.

55:10.922 --> 55:12.063
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's really fair.

55:12.083 --> 55:13.624
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

55:14.165 --> 55:17.828
[SPEAKER_04]: It certainly was a strange episode.

55:17.868 --> 55:19.630
[SPEAKER_04]: And I do like that it was thought provoking.

55:20.491 --> 55:21.592
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, I don't know.

55:21.632 --> 55:24.615
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's one they I had to sit with for I think it was.

55:24.795 --> 55:26.717
[SPEAKER_03]: You're somehow still mad at everybody.

55:27.778 --> 55:28.719
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I definitely am.

55:28.879 --> 55:38.206
[SPEAKER_04]: I think the anger did not dissipate, but no, no, the weeks the weeks were the I'm still Matt Zander and I forever will be and Willow is still on my shitlist.

55:38.546 --> 55:47.093
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to be hard for her to get off my shitlist, but we did get actually one email while we were out from Sarah with an H.

55:48.073 --> 55:50.375
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, a little bit of feet is some of its buffy related.

55:50.395 --> 55:51.435
[SPEAKER_04]: It's all just read the whole thing.

55:52.075 --> 55:55.998
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, this is after we really start what we've been up to, uh, podcast.

55:56.558 --> 55:59.139
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, I was delighted to hear you guys just banter and catch up with each other.

55:59.159 --> 56:01.000
[SPEAKER_04]: I had a bunch of thoughts running through my head.

56:01.060 --> 56:03.142
[SPEAKER_04]: As you went, firstly, congrats Sarah.

56:03.182 --> 56:05.303
[SPEAKER_04]: The newborn life is a blur, but you'll get through it.

56:05.383 --> 56:08.505
[SPEAKER_04]: The days are long as hell, but the weeks and months are short.

56:09.725 --> 56:17.530
[SPEAKER_04]: And as a fellow Midwest girlie, I love that you are embracing that part of yourself and saying things like the drive isn't too bad when talking about a six-hour john.

56:17.950 --> 56:23.294
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't stroke 22 hours out to Utah because it honestly was less of a headache for me than dealing with airports.

56:23.814 --> 56:25.535
[SPEAKER_04]: That's so true.

56:25.635 --> 56:26.596
[SPEAKER_04]: 22 hours.

56:26.616 --> 56:28.017
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a lot of joy.

56:28.057 --> 56:29.238
[SPEAKER_03]: She's a Midwesterners.

56:29.298 --> 56:31.659
[SPEAKER_03]: They just don't take airplanes.

56:31.859 --> 56:33.780
[SPEAKER_03]: They just drive everywhere.

56:34.101 --> 56:34.961
[SPEAKER_03]: I've everywhere.

56:35.261 --> 56:35.962
[SPEAKER_03]: Short drives.

56:36.582 --> 56:38.724
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, short, short, short, a little jaunt.

56:39.005 --> 56:43.629
[SPEAKER_04]: Ever after is legit one of my favorite movies, ever, but y'all's conversation about it cracked me up.

56:43.689 --> 56:47.393
[SPEAKER_04]: The real DaVinci is also known for his inventions and architecture designs.

56:47.854 --> 56:53.800
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not sure how many of them went beyond a sketch concept, but he was definitely attempting to figure out things like flying machines and scuba equipment.

56:54.260 --> 56:58.785
[SPEAKER_04]: In the movie, he uses these floating boat shoes to walk on water.

56:59.185 --> 57:09.036
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think what and I think there's also a kite or something it's a 90s movie so I would love to see you covered as a bonus episode sometime That's hilarious.

57:09.077 --> 57:09.897
[SPEAKER_04]: I've never seen that movie.

57:09.917 --> 57:14.843
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we've definitely mentioned talk we've definitely talked about covering it because I know Sarah loves it so much I love that

57:16.284 --> 57:18.666
[SPEAKER_03]: I downloaded it to the plaques, so beautiful.

57:18.706 --> 57:20.067
[SPEAKER_04]: We have it available to us.

57:20.147 --> 57:25.651
[SPEAKER_04]: So when they all be available when they're inside, so whenever it pops up, yeah.

57:25.811 --> 57:35.719
[SPEAKER_04]: As for Buffy, I think you now understand now what I'd said before about this season being a lot more adult, not like the newty, newty you're hoping for, or hoping question mark for?

57:36.339 --> 57:37.420
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, hoping definitely.

57:37.800 --> 57:42.445
[SPEAKER_04]: a depression, a drug allegory, reckless public sex, but wait, there's more.

57:42.765 --> 57:47.370
[SPEAKER_04]: This upcoming episode, normal again, is one that really messes in my head and I'm looking forward to your discussion on it.

57:47.390 --> 57:49.632
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll say, I hope you enjoyed our discussion on it.

57:51.154 --> 57:53.336
[SPEAKER_04]: What a tree it's been to still have a new episode every week.

57:53.376 --> 57:58.602
[SPEAKER_04]: I know there was a lot of extra work up front for y'all and you absolutely could have just fucked off entirely for a few weeks.

58:00.143 --> 58:01.224
[SPEAKER_04]: Until next time, Sarah.

58:01.965 --> 58:02.705
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much.

58:03.306 --> 58:06.629
[SPEAKER_04]: It's really kind of you to send in that email.

58:06.809 --> 58:09.351
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was a little bit of work up front, but I think it was worth it.

58:09.411 --> 58:12.093
[SPEAKER_04]: So it was nice to have podcasts coming out every week.

58:14.631 --> 58:35.439
[SPEAKER_04]: uh... so thank you so much for reading in Sarah and now let's do a little uh... courties corner because we also and it ages was not on your homework assignment um... to watch angel that is that is the cross that we shall bear for the listeners um... the gift truly it's a gift to everyone on a day with an episode of my friend Sam Anderson so

58:37.559 --> 58:41.320
[SPEAKER_04]: It was, well, okay, season three, episode 17 for giving.

58:41.400 --> 58:47.202
[SPEAKER_04]: Basically, we're catching up with, okay, Conner is gone, Angel's freaking out.

58:47.262 --> 58:48.182
[SPEAKER_04]: We got a lot of shit.

58:48.202 --> 58:53.123
[SPEAKER_04]: We got to figure out Wesley got his, like, throw all cut, but apparently he's still alive.

58:53.163 --> 58:55.204
[SPEAKER_04]: He's just hanging out in the forest the whole time.

58:55.464 --> 58:56.764
[SPEAKER_04]: He's chilling in the forest.

58:57.084 --> 58:58.825
[SPEAKER_04]: Cordelia still on vacation.

58:58.925 --> 59:00.465
[SPEAKER_04]: Angel says, don't tell her,

59:00.885 --> 59:04.987
[SPEAKER_03]: Hold on, this was the funniest ship I've ever seen in my life.

59:05.147 --> 59:20.493
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not gonna lie because Fred is like, we have to tell Cordelia what's going on because they figure out the prophecy, they know what's missing, all the shit it counters through the thing to the portal.

59:21.953 --> 59:32.282
[SPEAKER_03]: Angel was like, no, we cannot tell Cordelia because then she will stop shopping for my son, and I need him to get optimal presents for him.

59:33.543 --> 59:37.526
[SPEAKER_03]: Now he's going to be presents and we cannot stop the shop.

59:37.666 --> 59:38.146
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like,

59:38.967 --> 59:39.587
[SPEAKER_03]: priorities.

59:39.627 --> 59:40.948
[SPEAKER_03]: My friend priorities.

59:41.468 --> 59:42.589
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, be presents.

59:42.769 --> 59:45.270
[SPEAKER_04]: There will be more must be presents.

59:45.510 --> 01:00:00.477
[SPEAKER_04]: Meanwhile, like gone and a friend or trying to figure out why Wesley did when he did, they figure out of his the prophecy that Wesley knew about, but to waste the prophecy was a big old fat fake.

01:00:01.357 --> 01:00:07.459
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, and it was the guy, saw John, saw John, um, that did it.

01:00:07.519 --> 01:00:10.880
[SPEAKER_04]: He basically was like, I'm a time hop a bit and sprinkle in some gossip.

01:00:10.900 --> 01:00:23.965
[SPEAKER_04]: He basically played a long game telephone and made it so that the prophecy was about Angel and his kid rather than Angel and himself, where it basically was like, Angel's gonna come up and kill me, but I didn't want that to happen, whatever.

01:00:30.967 --> 01:00:36.070
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, oh, and, and I have a theory, everyone, okay?

01:00:36.450 --> 01:00:44.656
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a ridiculous stupid theory, but literally it's the only thing keeping me sane in this angel universe that I don't care about.

01:00:46.557 --> 01:00:57.264
[SPEAKER_04]: At one point, Sajan says that he had to do something because Connor had a bright future before him.

01:00:57.704 --> 01:00:59.145
[SPEAKER_04]: So he decided to quote unquote,

01:00:59.745 --> 01:01:01.006
[SPEAKER_04]: Put him down.

01:01:01.166 --> 01:01:01.967
[SPEAKER_04]: These are his words.

01:01:02.167 --> 01:01:03.108
[SPEAKER_04]: Put him down.

01:01:03.728 --> 01:01:07.091
[SPEAKER_04]: In that moment, light bulb, boom, off in my head.

01:01:08.112 --> 01:01:09.473
[SPEAKER_04]: I think I figured this out.

01:01:10.013 --> 01:01:11.114
[SPEAKER_04]: Who got put down?

01:01:11.935 --> 01:01:14.197
[SPEAKER_04]: Almost put down this episode?

01:01:15.624 --> 01:01:16.845
[SPEAKER_04]: Wesley himself.

01:01:17.546 --> 01:01:23.691
[SPEAKER_04]: Wesley is angels, baby, bum, bum, bum.

01:01:24.351 --> 01:01:26.413
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't remember a ton about Wesley's family.

01:01:26.433 --> 01:01:37.602
[SPEAKER_04]: A friend of the podcast Tom Palmer basically said that Wesley has daddy issues, which like Yabro, his daughter trying to kill him, but also that his dad was a watcher.

01:01:37.922 --> 01:01:39.363
[SPEAKER_04]: So his dad is in the like

01:01:47.423 --> 01:01:53.024
[SPEAKER_04]: I think I figured it out, that's where that's my theory.

01:01:53.324 --> 01:01:54.344
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm okay.

01:01:54.384 --> 01:01:55.305
[SPEAKER_04]: This is everything.

01:01:55.385 --> 01:01:56.545
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you think, Sarah?

01:01:57.565 --> 01:02:11.048
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, if I think that if the writers actually thought about anything in regards to Angel, I think that could be something that happens, but I didn't even know if this show thinks that far ahead.

01:02:11.288 --> 01:02:13.268
[SPEAKER_03]: But hey, I'll, I'll.

01:02:13.868 --> 01:02:15.050
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll go down with you.

01:02:15.070 --> 01:02:20.637
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I don't think there's a lot of supporting evidence.

01:02:20.837 --> 01:02:23.580
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that your, no, there's nothing.

01:02:23.741 --> 01:02:27.746
[SPEAKER_03]: You're evidence of their both white seems extremely compelling.

01:02:32.705 --> 01:02:34.886
[SPEAKER_03]: that is so fun.

01:02:35.646 --> 01:02:36.606
[SPEAKER_03]: Also not a white man.

01:02:36.947 --> 01:02:38.387
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so true, Jess.

01:02:38.487 --> 01:02:39.247
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so true.

01:02:39.347 --> 01:02:46.130
[SPEAKER_03]: So basically the fact that they're both white men has to be that they're the same.

01:02:46.650 --> 01:02:51.512
[SPEAKER_04]: I wish it would be so much more fucked if it was the Gorgog guy.

01:02:51.632 --> 01:02:53.092
[SPEAKER_04]: I've for Garusolog.

01:02:53.112 --> 01:02:53.713
[SPEAKER_04]: What's his name?

01:02:53.973 --> 01:02:54.633
[SPEAKER_04]: Garusolog.

01:02:54.673 --> 01:02:55.533
[SPEAKER_00]: Garusolog?

01:02:55.553 --> 01:02:56.314
[SPEAKER_04]: Garusolog.

01:02:57.154 --> 01:02:57.574
[SPEAKER_04]: But he has

01:03:00.115 --> 01:03:02.898
[SPEAKER_03]: But it would be so fucked because he's like, I love Cordelia.

01:03:02.918 --> 01:03:05.340
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, but brought your son, cockplocked you.

01:03:05.360 --> 01:03:10.284
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but have we even seen baby cars, people's, no.

01:03:10.304 --> 01:03:13.107
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, oh, that's a good, no, but you don't.

01:03:13.127 --> 01:03:16.010
[SPEAKER_04]: You think someone would have commented like, that kid has weirdo people.

01:03:17.403 --> 01:03:17.924
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

01:03:18.464 --> 01:03:19.665
[SPEAKER_03]: Look, it looks kind of demony.

01:03:20.206 --> 01:03:24.989
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, your baby doesn't even choose their eye color until like a year and a half ends.

01:03:25.009 --> 01:03:26.711
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's true.

01:03:26.731 --> 01:03:32.536
[SPEAKER_04]: AJ, obviously, you can't say much, but are you thumbs up on my theory in general?

01:03:32.556 --> 01:03:33.596
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you like that?

01:03:33.616 --> 01:03:34.457
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going for it.

01:03:35.078 --> 01:03:38.240
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I can't argue with the kind of logic, so I think I can.

01:03:38.280 --> 01:03:40.342
[SPEAKER_03]: He'd be as white as Lee as white.

01:03:40.622 --> 01:03:41.222
[SPEAKER_03]: He's the same.

01:03:41.483 --> 01:03:43.905
[SPEAKER_03]: He can't argue with the logic because it's a logical.

01:03:49.096 --> 01:04:03.058
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say, I think the first couple of seasons of Angel, including this one, work a whole lot better on a binge than the week to week, and you can get your answers to your questions and build up your case a little more, but you know.

01:04:03.420 --> 01:04:04.081
[SPEAKER_04]: This is true.

01:04:04.121 --> 01:04:07.944
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll get more next episode, but I also need to say angels are big dummy.

01:04:08.284 --> 01:04:13.548
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, angel is just full him, both status because this man tried to suffocate a man in the hospital.

01:04:13.668 --> 01:04:15.350
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, there's nurses, there's doctors.

01:04:15.410 --> 01:04:18.873
[SPEAKER_04]: If you wanted to kill this man, we need to ease out of the hospital and then kill him.

01:04:19.153 --> 01:04:20.434
[SPEAKER_04]: It'd be so easy for you.

01:04:20.534 --> 01:04:23.156
[SPEAKER_04]: And stick you try suffocating him, all his monitors.

01:04:23.276 --> 01:04:26.119
[SPEAKER_04]: At least unplug the machines before you do it, my guy.

01:04:26.139 --> 01:04:27.600
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, what a dummy.

01:04:27.700 --> 01:04:29.082
[SPEAKER_04]: What an absolute dummy.

01:04:29.462 --> 01:04:34.670
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you have any explanation about what was going on in that white, bright room with the girl?

01:04:36.237 --> 01:04:43.142
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, it gave, um, it gave that like the people who know who with those people, do you remember the powers you'd be?

01:04:43.402 --> 01:04:44.503
[SPEAKER_04]: The powers that be.

01:04:44.523 --> 01:04:45.063
[SPEAKER_04]: See, H.A.

01:04:45.464 --> 01:04:46.645
[SPEAKER_04]: speaks my language.

01:04:47.165 --> 01:04:48.026
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what it was giving.

01:04:48.166 --> 01:04:51.548
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what that little girl was about, but she was corripy as hell.

01:04:51.668 --> 01:04:55.071
[SPEAKER_03]: Why did they decide to go there and say the powers that be?

01:04:55.371 --> 01:04:56.852
[SPEAKER_03]: And who is the powers that be your dead?

01:04:56.872 --> 01:04:58.313
[SPEAKER_00]: They're dead, apparently.

01:04:58.353 --> 01:04:58.693
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.

01:04:58.713 --> 01:04:59.614
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't look for it earlier.

01:05:00.134 --> 01:05:01.095
[SPEAKER_03]: Guys, I told you that.

01:05:01.135 --> 01:05:03.637
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm here for that news that you're an expert.

01:05:15.206 --> 01:05:19.247
[SPEAKER_03]: girl was so funny because she was just like, boo, who your son's missing.

01:05:20.387 --> 01:05:21.587
[SPEAKER_03]: So sorry.

01:05:22.208 --> 01:05:25.548
[SPEAKER_03]: Queen, she, so weird.

01:05:25.688 --> 01:05:26.149
[SPEAKER_03]: So weird.

01:05:26.209 --> 01:05:34.931
[SPEAKER_03]: I watched two episodes or one at, yeah, two episodes of brothers and sisters this morning at like four, three AM as you do.

01:05:36.211 --> 01:05:42.432
[SPEAKER_03]: And so weird, she was in those episodes of brothers and sisters and she was only in two

01:05:45.333 --> 01:06:00.979
[SPEAKER_03]: three episodes of that that girl wild wild stuff yeah it was good episodes of brothers and sisters it was a flashback episode where they revealed some like major T at the end

01:06:02.379 --> 01:06:07.583
[SPEAKER_03]: I need to tell you so many more stories of brothers and sisters because it's so cracked out, but I'm not going to make AJ sit through that, so.

01:06:07.623 --> 01:06:08.324
[SPEAKER_04]: No, it's fine.

01:06:08.344 --> 01:06:14.708
[SPEAKER_04]: We can, we can, we will do another bonus podcast of Sarah just talking about the wacky world of brothers and sisters.

01:06:15.129 --> 01:06:26.657
[SPEAKER_04]: By the way, I did show the, like, the poster of brothers and sisters to my mom because I was like, mom, this seems like a show you would have watched and she's like, that definitely looks familiar.

01:06:26.697 --> 01:06:27.778
[SPEAKER_04]: I definitely think I watched it.

01:06:30.440 --> 01:06:31.821
[SPEAKER_00]: I've sat through the whole run, yes.

01:06:32.201 --> 01:06:33.042
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, did you?

01:06:33.562 --> 01:06:33.822
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

01:06:33.862 --> 01:06:35.423
[SPEAKER_00]: Not my choice, but I do.

01:06:35.643 --> 01:06:35.764
[UNKNOWN]: Oh.

01:06:36.764 --> 01:06:37.485
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it your life?

01:06:37.505 --> 01:06:39.406
[SPEAKER_04]: Because it does feel like a mom show.

01:06:39.446 --> 01:06:40.067
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:06:40.187 --> 01:06:43.109
[SPEAKER_00]: But we, we, we, we, we know each other.

01:06:43.129 --> 01:06:44.230
[SPEAKER_00]: Incredible.

01:06:44.330 --> 01:06:45.731
[SPEAKER_03]: Look, you said you got husband AJ.

01:06:46.391 --> 01:06:52.557
[SPEAKER_03]: They still have to remind me that, of course, the Flower Cart is a Republican every single episode.

01:06:52.657 --> 01:06:53.538
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know why.

01:06:53.658 --> 01:06:56.560
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I can't see for God.

01:06:56.580 --> 01:07:03.146
[SPEAKER_03]: And then in the flashback episode, she also was like, I'm a Republican.

01:07:05.108 --> 01:07:06.129
[SPEAKER_03]: We know Mitch.

01:07:06.890 --> 01:07:09.933
[SPEAKER_04]: I only wear red, but in case you forgot, I am a Republican.

01:07:11.046 --> 01:07:15.868
[SPEAKER_03]: You know it's for in the morning.

01:07:16.129 --> 01:07:19.830
[SPEAKER_04]: You still remember that she's a girl in the white room.

01:07:20.070 --> 01:07:23.292
[SPEAKER_03]: Also said that she's a Republican because she played a young Chris.

01:07:23.332 --> 01:07:23.832
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

01:07:24.072 --> 01:07:25.233
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm like, I know.

01:07:25.273 --> 01:07:25.513
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

01:07:26.213 --> 01:07:26.774
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god.

01:07:26.794 --> 01:07:28.454
[SPEAKER_04]: That's why she was wearing red in the white room.

01:07:32.295 --> 01:07:38.460
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my gosh, all right, let's talk about the titles for next week's next week's episode.

01:07:38.500 --> 01:07:51.369
[SPEAKER_04]: So for Buffy season six episode 18 entropy and for Angel season three episode 18 double or nothing I'm playing poker

01:07:53.456 --> 01:07:55.537
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that's double enough, I think.

01:07:55.957 --> 01:07:57.658
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I don't know what entropy means.

01:07:57.698 --> 01:07:58.418
[SPEAKER_03]: That's fake.

01:07:58.638 --> 01:07:59.699
[SPEAKER_03]: That's now a real word.

01:08:00.539 --> 01:08:06.341
[SPEAKER_04]: A measure of randomness, disorder, and the unavailable energy in a closed thermodynamic system.

01:08:07.061 --> 01:08:07.882
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just kidding.

01:08:08.042 --> 01:08:12.063
[SPEAKER_00]: In other words, it's in the state of high entropy.

01:08:12.303 --> 01:08:16.345
[SPEAKER_00]: That means that the energy is more dispersal, is more chaotic.

01:08:16.625 --> 01:08:20.266
[SPEAKER_00]: But in low entropy, things are more stable.

01:08:21.931 --> 01:08:23.732
[SPEAKER_04]: If we get a stable episode, I can't age it.

01:08:23.753 --> 01:08:24.933
[SPEAKER_04]: This better be some chaos.

01:08:25.034 --> 01:08:30.738
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so the question is, it doesn't give you an adjective towards the entropy, whether it's high or in low.

01:08:31.158 --> 01:08:41.367
[SPEAKER_00]: So you don't know, but you know, the laws of thermodynamics say that once you serve hit a certain point of entropy, that the processes are irreversible.

01:08:41.467 --> 01:08:46.391
[SPEAKER_00]: So that you get the point of where you can't fix what's broken basically.

01:08:47.172 --> 01:08:47.773
[SPEAKER_04]: science.

01:08:48.433 --> 01:08:54.599
[SPEAKER_03]: I just, I mean, with all to respect, you just was a season one jiles for me.

01:08:54.699 --> 01:09:00.524
[SPEAKER_03]: I just, I just, you know, it's not going to be like chaos or stability.

01:09:00.864 --> 01:09:05.688
[SPEAKER_04]: Is the answer depending on like what the word before entropy is, but there's no word before entropy.

01:09:05.708 --> 01:09:06.709
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're left guessing.

01:09:07.050 --> 01:09:07.530
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, got it.

01:09:07.670 --> 01:09:07.910
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

01:09:08.731 --> 01:09:10.032
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm hoping for chaos.

01:09:11.298 --> 01:09:19.128
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, but that's next week as we barrel towards the season six finale, uh, we're not that far away from it, baby.

01:09:19.208 --> 01:09:19.809
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to be.

01:09:19.969 --> 01:09:21.471
[SPEAKER_04]: It's going to be summer.

01:09:21.491 --> 01:09:24.154
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, literally kind of when we get there.

01:09:25.055 --> 01:09:25.516
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

01:09:25.716 --> 01:09:26.677
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm tired Sarah.

01:09:26.757 --> 01:09:27.518
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm rusty.

01:09:27.699 --> 01:09:29.521
[SPEAKER_04]: It's going to be summer.

01:09:30.742 --> 01:09:37.888
[SPEAKER_04]: AJ, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, indulging our madness, explaining things to us that we don't understand.

01:09:37.988 --> 01:09:39.229
[SPEAKER_04]: It's always appreciated.

01:09:39.249 --> 01:09:41.551
[SPEAKER_04]: Where are you going, Mark?

01:09:41.591 --> 01:09:41.851
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:09:42.451 --> 01:09:43.732
[SPEAKER_04]: Could you, are you doing anything else you want?

01:09:43.752 --> 01:09:46.354
[SPEAKER_04]: Tell anybody else about anything else that you have going on?

01:09:46.795 --> 01:09:48.015
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah.

01:09:48.896 --> 01:09:55.621
[SPEAKER_00]: Really, I've kind of taken a step back from the podcasting scene and just kind of like gotten back into musical theater.

01:09:55.641 --> 01:10:04.307
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just missed your run as King Harrod in Jesus Christ Superstar and we'll soon be tackling come from away.

01:10:05.648 --> 01:10:07.670
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that's a come from away is great.

01:10:08.270 --> 01:10:13.513
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so yeah, we're going to get our time to, you know, doing stuff with people in person again.

01:10:13.894 --> 01:10:15.655
[SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, no.

01:10:15.675 --> 01:10:30.344
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I'm enjoying myself in that way, but I still still enjoy to reach back to the 25 years ago, and watch these episodes, and I'm very, very, I forgot how hard it is not to spoil stuff, so.

01:10:33.285 --> 01:10:39.490
[SPEAKER_00]: The efforts it is taking because I know where we're going and I'll be listening.

01:10:40.251 --> 01:10:42.512
[SPEAKER_04]: AJ knows that Wesley is Connor.

01:10:42.792 --> 01:10:43.433
[SPEAKER_04]: It confirmed.

01:10:50.563 --> 01:11:10.191
[SPEAKER_04]: We always appreciate you coming on and as for everyone else, we're back BB and we're going to be back again next week Even though it was really like no time at past for you all, but so much time at past for us So hopefully we weren't too rusty and yeah next week we'll be back with season 6 episode 18 So until then everyone here and if the lesson