Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Season 7 Episode 14 - First Date

0:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes a world looks like you ain't ever seen it before So you'd be high never ended with those All you need is a door Searching for something to put a smile back on your face Just remember in unusual times I can come from one unusual place [SPEAKER_02]: You need a partner for the ride Because everybody needs a ride Such a bird is too side Just ask See the word and I'll be there Just ask [SPEAKER_02]: I know the greatest things in the life I'll come in a pair They say hindsight's 20, 20 That ain't far enough behind me So we can walk this sweetest honey I think hindsight's 19, 19 Isn't needed pretending I got a hand I can land Who's with you really can need a friend Just ask [SPEAKER_02]: Shit 90's shows taught me.

1:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Shit 90's shows taught me was not filmed before live studio audience. [SPEAKER_01]: Are you ready to slay another day? [SPEAKER_01]: So are we? [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to Shit 90's shows taught me. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just early in the year with my co-host. [SPEAKER_01]: Sarah, I'm very Sarah, how are you? [SPEAKER_00]: Jess, I am good. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited to experience my first date with the high school principal. [SPEAKER_00]: who we thought could be evil, maybe. [SPEAKER_00]: But is probably not evil? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: It turns out probably not. [SPEAKER_00]: Props not. [SPEAKER_00]: First date, first date, plus another first date with the demon. [SPEAKER_00]: I like these first dates. [SPEAKER_00]: It's fun. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Ashanti just showed one up on Buffy as if that's normal.

2:09 [SPEAKER_01]: It was of the times it was normal. [SPEAKER_01]: Wild. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, wild stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: OK. Can you name one Ashanti song? [SPEAKER_01]: Ugh, no, I, like, didn't she do that one with job rule? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember what the name of it is, but it's like, I always say when you call, not all of these, all the time, right, that was her, that's her. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, oh my, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, now baby, be mine, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that, that does, uh, sounds familiar. [SPEAKER_00]: Let me see. [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, always on time. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's technically a jaw rule song featuring a shanty. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was the other way around.

2:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: What? [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, what about what's left? [SPEAKER_00]: What's got to do with it babe? [SPEAKER_00]: Is that one of the shondi songs? [SPEAKER_00]: What's left up to do with it? [SPEAKER_00]: What's got to do with it babe? [SPEAKER_00]: Leerix. [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's fat Joe featuring a shondi. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's still shondi. [SPEAKER_00]: Another feature a shondi song. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: You can't name any shondi songs. [SPEAKER_00]: We can only have songs that feature a shondi song. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, is that the thing? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, is she... [SPEAKER_00]: Do we know more? [SPEAKER_00]: I guess we do know more featuring Shanti songs because like those were like what we're on the radio when we're in high school [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe middle school probably, no more middle school, I'd say, yeah, probably.

3:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe middle school for you, maybe I hate school for a long time around that time. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know if I know any foolish and unfoldish. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, that's interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: She has a song on an album named foolish and then a song on the album named unfoldish. [SPEAKER_00]: I've never thought of such a thing. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe this is like a thing where like with Taylor Swift where it's like, she has all the like albums of her trashing her like X's and then she gets into like a stable relationship and she starts like changing the tone of the songs and like yeah, yeah, it goes from full like a class of country song where like you're singing about something and it's like in like about somebody else but then you find out at the end it's about you, [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, anyway, um, I didn't like call that this was a shanti because I feel like I know a shanti more by name than by What should I just saw her face and I was like, is that fucking a shanti on Bobby right now?

4:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's such a deep cut. [SPEAKER_00]: Like how do you just remember a shanti? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think she's like a fairly distinctive face to me. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, Ashanti was here. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess let's start off by talking about that storyline because we're already there anyway. [SPEAKER_01]: We're like, Zander just suddenly has the goal, has the confidence. [SPEAKER_01]: to walk up to fucking a shanty and ask her on a day. [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, that's not what happened. [SPEAKER_00]: Please stop having. [SPEAKER_00]: He's the girl to use at the hardware store. [SPEAKER_00]: And all this bitch needs help with her ropes.

5:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And I do like the little, kind of like back and forth that they had between his like, you know, like, what do you need the, the rope for is it like, [SPEAKER_00]: work related or like recreational and like I like the little wink and not nod towards like some BDSM type of thing and they're back and forth. [SPEAKER_00]: I've probably had like really good chemistry back and forth which is like a lot of audacity for Zander to go up and then yeah like she I like the joke that she made. [SPEAKER_00]: She was like you know it's like a con like I have a kayak and he's like [SPEAKER_00]: date with me, coffee, or whatever he said, and she's like, what?

5:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd like to this. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was fun. [SPEAKER_00]: You you hate Zander still a little bit, so your price still mad. [SPEAKER_01]: It was less than I hated Zander, and more that I was like, [SPEAKER_01]: what do we do? [SPEAKER_01]: It felt like the only reason the plot line existed was to get spike and the principal like in their interacting, like in the same scene. [SPEAKER_01]: And so it was just like very strange that okay we're strapping, zander up over the symbol thing to bleed him, which [SPEAKER_01]: There was like, not in that plot holes, but like nitpicks, I guess I would say in this storyline number one why did a shanty stab him one time and then just decide to like hang out and watch him bleed dribble by dribble like could have cut some bigger cuts to make it go a little faster.

7:02 [SPEAKER_01]: How did he do that? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, maybe it was just a coincidence. [SPEAKER_00]: Like maybe he sent her the eggplant emoji on his way From one location to the other and he And he thought and he thought that that what he was like, oh, I'm getting lucky and like she interpreted as like oh, I'm in trouble So I I could say that that that is a possibility [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of, like, them actually remembering what code means what? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I don't think you're code for this is going great. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to get laid. [SPEAKER_01]: Should be anywhere near similarity similar to the, I'm on a date with a demon come help me.

7:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, feels like they should be pretty distinctive codes separately. [SPEAKER_00]: We just don't know what it was. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: squiggle line, star, asterisk, squiggle line, because, yes, that was very like, that was very like, let me add some pizzazz to any work. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, A, I am a way message. [SPEAKER_00]: I need this writing line, asterisk. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: What did you think of, okay, so he asks for they get they're getting coffee, which is a classic first date move. [SPEAKER_01]: I've done this before. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to commit to dinner in cases going poorly.

8:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to be able to get the fuck out of there. [SPEAKER_01]: So a nice little classic coffee date. [SPEAKER_01]: He lies and says he gets a red eye, but really he's drinking hot cocoa. [SPEAKER_00]: I would find a cute slash and deering. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think. [SPEAKER_01]: I, and this is just me. [SPEAKER_01]: I think I would be paranoid to be like, why does mother fucker lie to me immediately? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, fucker lie. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I immediately lied to me. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not cool. [SPEAKER_01]: I'll just say you like taco. [SPEAKER_01]: Say you like a taco? [SPEAKER_01]: Who the fuck doesn't? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, because it's not manly and like he's very- It's the fuck. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think. [SPEAKER_01]: I, okay, here's the situation, Sarah, for both of us.

9:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I would not say that either one of our partners. [SPEAKER_01]: When they go to a coffee shop, probably orders the mainly a stringed on the menu. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that is true of either of them. [SPEAKER_00]: No, no. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Adam does drink straight black coffee at home, but if he's going out, he's getting like the fru-free is through-through-est little bitch drink that everything's exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: And also, I've listened to highly caffeinated. [SPEAKER_01]: I know he does like an iced vanilla latte with like the bells and whistles. [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying my husband will often get like the because we have like a local coffee shop. [SPEAKER_01]: We love and they love to do like a seasonal thing. [SPEAKER_01]: So he loves to get the like whatever the like fall drink is that's like, you know special.

9:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So like, just, just say, I would rather someone just be like, nah, like Hacoco, then be like, it's a red eye. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a man, get out of here, what are you doing? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it just looks insecure. [SPEAKER_01]: And therefore, I get the, immediately. [SPEAKER_00]: Did she, did she call him out, like by sniffing it, or did he admit to it? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, she's a very bold for a first date to be like, let me have some. [SPEAKER_01]: Like drinking his drink, Sips up and then did she order herself a red eye? [SPEAKER_01]: She ordered a red eye, which is, as we all know, a shot of espresso in coffee. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, yes we all know. [SPEAKER_01]: We all know.

10:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I, as a, as a 35 year old lady, I could never. [SPEAKER_01]: This looked like an evening date and ain't no way. [SPEAKER_01]: I think in a fucking red eye at like six or seven PM, I don't want to be up all night. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, they had a big night ahead of bleeding. [SPEAKER_00]: So, sure, she had to stay up for this. [SPEAKER_01]: And so you know what, that's probably a good point. [SPEAKER_01]: Zander probably ends up being up fairly late anyway with all the slaying stuff happening. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, everybody has a long, they probably can go to bed after a red eye unlike me. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, who knows how old's Ashanty, the character, not the person? [SPEAKER_01]: I assume early 20s, if I run the same as him. [SPEAKER_01]: They're a demon.

11:16 [SPEAKER_01]: She's [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, sure. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, who knows what that happens when she drinks a red eye. [SPEAKER_01]: Probably nothing or everything. [SPEAKER_01]: She looked nasty by the way. [SPEAKER_01]: I've been in her head, get chopped off. [SPEAKER_01]: Wolf could be her gogo juice. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that was, how do you feel about a coffee date being a first date? [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I think it's a really good date. [SPEAKER_00]: I really do. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that it is definitely as far as first days go low commitment. [SPEAKER_01]: I think copy date first date or or like drink state first date or like the two solid options if you if it's like um like an app sort of a thing right like unless you if you met the personal ready it's a little different I think But if you've never met the person yeah I do think that it also opens up the opportunity if it's like going really really well we can [SPEAKER_01]: extended.

12:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do something else. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, especially because when I did my coffee date first date, it was like, okay, if it goes well, we can also get like breakfast or brunch or whatever after, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Didn't go well. [SPEAKER_01]: Didn't happen in the morning. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I did like a, I did like a, was it a, I can't, no, I think it was a mid-morning date. [SPEAKER_01]: Either that or it was a mid-afternoon date, but I'm fairly certain it was a mid-morning date. [SPEAKER_00]: That's why it didn't go well. [SPEAKER_01]: No, it didn't go well because this guy, I can't, oh my god, I know. [SPEAKER_01]: You go ahead and tell the story. [SPEAKER_01]: I've definitely told this before on the podcast, I had to have, he, he had, [SPEAKER_01]: like a guy who could have a lizard. [SPEAKER_01]: But he definitely didn't.

12:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, number one, let me just start off by saying, the reason I swiped on this guy is because in one of his profile pictures, he had a golden retriever. [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, yes, immediately sign up, wasn't even his hood wink to immediately. [SPEAKER_01]: But the reason I like, [SPEAKER_01]: date when so poorly. [SPEAKER_01]: He was wearing some sort of like cargo pants, which I don't care like where cargo pants they don't bother me except for the fact that he was very obviously like something nervous and he was fidgeting with the pants pocket on the cargo pant, which was Velcro, so it was like constantly the entire time. [SPEAKER_01]: He was also fiddling with like the [SPEAKER_01]: like the napkin that his coffee was like set on kind of like a coaster sort of you know and he was like shredding the fuck out of it and we just we didn't click either way but those things I was like I can't focus on anything else.

13:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so distracted by the cracking of the fucking Velcro and your pants all the time. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah um yeah yeah well oh well. [SPEAKER_01]: But that's okay, I'm married now, who the fuckers? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, and I have arguments on what our first date was, because one of us calls one thing our first date, and the other one calls the other thing our first date, because I was like, that wasn't a fucking date. [SPEAKER_01]: There was no confirmation of dating. [SPEAKER_01]: Was that, okay, what was the mini golf? [SPEAKER_01]: That was what I consider our first date. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what when I went, like we've been friends for many, eight years now, mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_00]: If I had to be like, answer trivia question about you guys. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I would say. [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I know. [SPEAKER_00]: But it would say, yeah, I was going to say you went out.

14:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But you didn't know because didn't know what's the date. [SPEAKER_00]: You guys were friends. [SPEAKER_00]: We're friends. [SPEAKER_00]: You're part of a gaming group. [SPEAKER_00]: So you found out that he moved to your area. [SPEAKER_00]: And you guys were going out in your mind as friends. [SPEAKER_01]: Correct, especially because I many times had said because he is new to the area. [SPEAKER_01]: I've grown up in this area many times. [SPEAKER_01]: I said I know my way around like if you want to go I could show you some like cool things whatever He never took me up on it. [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like he fucking hates me because he didn't take me up on it [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, like, you offer those things and like you're lucky if the other person takes you. [SPEAKER_00]: He thought I was just being nice.

15:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I'm never nice. [SPEAKER_00]: You should know better. [SPEAKER_00]: That's true. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think Adam and I technically have a first date. [SPEAKER_00]: like interesting because our first date was me and the nation together oh yeah we're on vacation together but also like me it was just wow me like going to his apartment in St. Louis for a week retreating from my life in New Jersey and then um and then fun ensued yeah and that was like a whole week I don't think we have a first date technically [SPEAKER_00]: So fastening. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, listen, it's it's 2026. [SPEAKER_00]: What is the first date? [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mean, like that's your lucky to get the first date at this point.

15:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, anyway, so that was Sanders situation. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, let's talk through. [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of let's talk to the Andreita. [SPEAKER_01]: This is a plate. [SPEAKER_01]: We will wait. [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to say that I think it's a really fun callback that like once again. [SPEAKER_00]: Like he Like when on day with a demon or charred like in girl lives a demon I think like it was really funny because it's like it doesn't happen once it doesn't have a twice I've just happened three times and I like how he was like oh like this again Yeah, I did not like when he comes back and he's like willow make me gay I did like I mean, I do I don't I do I do like I think it was dawn [SPEAKER_00]: Or Buffy that said like, yeah, but the Mandyman is just going to fall for you that that yeah yeah um yes I I want to know what your feelings are on on his reaction to all of this I isn't quite pressed oh she's so pressed I and I once again I like it because I I'd like them as a couple I kind of feels though they are end game.

16:52 [SPEAKER_00]: like I think that they're going to get back together and I don't hate it because I think that enough time has gone by like the zanders doing a lot of reflecting we see him talk about it to a shanti in this episode that like he's like I know that I fucked up like this would have been our anniversary like I think he's thinking a lot about it I think that onya [SPEAKER_00]: I think that it would be kind of poetic for the vengeance demon to eventually learn how to forgive. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think that there's something to that about, like, yes, like all of us, like all of us who feel wronged or are wronged by a friend and man a family member, like the higher thing is to forgive and come around to it and not let it, [SPEAKER_00]: and not get revenge or not do the petty thing.

17:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that there might be something to her being like, oh, like I've spent centuries seeking vengeance on people, but like my higher self, like if an astrology or like north-node is to like come back to the person that you're going to become, like her north-node is to like find forgiveness. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think like that could be really nice. [SPEAKER_00]: So I, in my head cannon, they're like back together by like the end of the series. [SPEAKER_00]: And they are like, lovey, love, love, love and happy is what I hope.

18:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I. [SPEAKER_01]: I like the idea of like the forgiveness aspect of it. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess I just, I really liked when on yet her own thing going on. [SPEAKER_01]: And like it wasn't always connected to Zander. [SPEAKER_01]: So like I did really love the scene of her in Buffy and she's like trying to clean Buffy's like a stain off with Buffy's shirt. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: But like, can I just say I got really annoyed with Buffy in that moment? [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know if I'm just like, [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a little pissy lately. [SPEAKER_00]: Are you worried that you're an irritable queen? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I don't there's no worry. [SPEAKER_01]: It's true. [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's there. [SPEAKER_01]: It's happening.

19:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the worst. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm in the worst mood ever all the time. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't want to say it because I'm your friend. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to crouch as bitch. [SPEAKER_01]: Like don't funk with me. [SPEAKER_01]: Like now is the time where no one we went. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: This is such a sidequest story. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't care. [SPEAKER_01]: We went shopping yesterday. [SPEAKER_01]: We were, okay, we had to go, and you know me, I'm an online shop or like, I don't like to go and store a lot. [SPEAKER_01]: I love to online shop, but for something like what we were going for, which is like a rocker recliner for the nursery, I wanted to sit in it. [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to make sure it was comfortable. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, so we had a whole list. [SPEAKER_01]: We had like literally like seven different furniture stores. [SPEAKER_01]: We were like planning on going to. [SPEAKER_01]: And if you know me, you know that I really, really hate when a sales person is like up my ass.

19:51 [SPEAKER_01]: like I just want to sit in the chair. [SPEAKER_01]: If I need help, I'll let you know. [SPEAKER_01]: I promise you, I will ask for your help if I need it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, most like I don't need it. [SPEAKER_01]: So we went to a few stores. [SPEAKER_01]: It was fine. [SPEAKER_01]: Like not a big deal. [SPEAKER_01]: We went to Bob's, Bob's discount for an answer. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no. [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is like a nationwide place, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I know it says this. [SPEAKER_01]: So we walk, my husband is the kindest person. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, true, he is the kindest sweetest, nicest guy ever. [SPEAKER_01]: And he's so used to, like, I'm usually the one who'll be like, oh, we're just looking like whatever, you know, like, just to get that skits them off your back. [SPEAKER_01]: So you walk in and I guess the guy must have said something like, [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, how are you or something and we'll said like, oh, we're just looking and he's like, oh, well, let me let me help he was very like forceful and I was like, we're looking for like a rocker we're climbing he's like, well, we only have three of those so you really do need my help like he was so.

20:45 [SPEAKER_01]: aggressive about it and like so immediately I wanted to turn my ass right back around and back and leave the store because I was so mad instantly at this. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that is actually justified. [SPEAKER_00]: Like what when I biggest things about or complaints about the soap store lush, [SPEAKER_00]: is how up they're asked about, like, they are with you back in English. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, leave me the fuck alone for two minutes. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, did you say to them, like, I would say, like, hey, like, we're just going to look in our own. [SPEAKER_00]: If we are ready, if I have any questions or we're ready to pull a trigger, I will go find you. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So we did that at, like, the first few places.

21:25 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like this guy just gave us, like, and the thing was, is they only did have, like, [SPEAKER_01]: three options, none of which were bugging good at all. [SPEAKER_01]: It was so funny because then when we ended it, so we did end up purchasing one and we went to a different store and the guy there was so kind and was like the perfect type of sales person where he basically was like, I'll walk you to exactly where they were, which the store was huge, so actually very thankful. [SPEAKER_01]: He did that. [SPEAKER_01]: They had all of them lined up. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, he was like, all right, I'll leave you to it. [SPEAKER_01]: And he like walked away, perfect. [SPEAKER_01]: We did all our sitting, he came, he looped back around to check in on us and sort of all their questions, but like was not pushy was like very kind, explained everything.

22:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, this is what I'm talking about. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like it when someone is like, oh, my ass, trying to make a sale. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I want to be left alone. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm irritable. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, anyway. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think like that's a very justified. [SPEAKER_00]: thing to be irritated, so you're irritated, you're irritated. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry. [SPEAKER_00]: You're irritated about. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's fine. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just like if there really doesn't take much to set me off these days and I was like this fucking guy, he has no fucking glue. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, especially when someone is like snotty to my husband, I get like very, because I'm like his so kind, how fucking dare you? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, [SPEAKER_01]: No, I am very irritable lately, and so I think that's what you're a mad at Buffy because she's a mad at Buffy about herself.

23:00 [SPEAKER_01]: You're a situation. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought, because, okay, we've talked about this to death about how like no one treats on you like she is a part of the group, no one ever treats her like a friend, it's like they just use an abuse her and really don't actively ever try to like give a helping hand, right? [SPEAKER_01]: And like in the moment when Buffy's like, oh, are you like, are you like upset? [SPEAKER_01]: That like Sanders going on? [SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, don't can't you tell? [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm so pressed. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And Buffy's like, okay, I'll leave you alone. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like... [SPEAKER_01]: Like, maybe that is an option for some people, but in my opinion, it's so obvious that you just want to invent to someone that like, then you're just like, I've been obviously shared to P2, so that's a whole thing.

23:41 [SPEAKER_01]: But like, girl, are you fucking serious? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's a room. [SPEAKER_01]: There's an entire house full of people, and no one gives a single shit about onus feelings. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, really upsetting that is true and that is why onya essentially became a vengeance demon in the first place because she felt so isolated her man left to go hook up with bar meat ends everybody in the town thought that she was a joke and a half like yeah you understand why like all these people do bad things well some of them get drove driven to it like camp [SPEAKER_01]: like carries like carry.

24:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so yeah, I wasn't very, I wasn't very happy about that. [SPEAKER_01]: I understand we're going towards like a zander on your thing, right? [SPEAKER_01]: He spends a lot of his date talking about like leaving on yet the altar and how mad it was. [SPEAKER_01]: Call a law. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: saying like, hey, like, what's red flag in the date? [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's the biggest red flag. [SPEAKER_00]: If never talk about an ex on your first date, the focus wrong with you. [SPEAKER_00]: If your date is talking more about their ex relationship, more so than trying to get to know you, that is obviously a huge red flag. [SPEAKER_01]: unless you're specifically asked about it, which might be a second or third date question, truly.

25:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like if you want to find out, because the main reason someone would probably ask Lisa my opinion is like you want to know how many serious relationships have you been in, or why have your other relationships ended, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Like those are questions I feel like you kind of want to know. [SPEAKER_00]: Of course you want to know that, but honestly, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I haven't dated like probably ever, [SPEAKER_00]: the boyfriends just fall upon me. [SPEAKER_00]: Not like, and that sounds like so narcissistic is just like, they just show up. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, I barely been on the abs. [SPEAKER_00]: I've been like in a straight relationship of some sort for like, the 20 years. [SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, I don't mean it like that, like, but I'm just saying, like, I haven't really dated.

25:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Like a wit. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember the question is now. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so I think about relationships and like how serious they are. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, like is that like a first date question. [SPEAKER_01]: Or is that Um, I too. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like you. [SPEAKER_00]: I have not done a lot of like dating around so it's so different now than it was back when we were actually actively. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I personally like I've never asked on a first date. [SPEAKER_01]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I agree with you. [SPEAKER_01]: I think like second or third date or like rather than like putting a label like that like as the relationship is progressing, you probably find that information out like out of curiosity more than anything else like, oh, by the way, who like what's your dating history like, you know, yeah.

26:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so yeah, I just wish I had more going on than what the hell is going on with Zander, but that's fine. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, let's talk about Andrew and Bishnan against this episode. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, once again, I, I still, I don't, I don't, I still am like not my day Andrew. [SPEAKER_00]: I, I do get actually angry when I see Warren or Jonathan on my screen because they fucking love the guy that plays Jonathan. [SPEAKER_01]: They know someone in casting or the or the writing team sloppers over Jonathan. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, yes, foaming at the mouth about Jonathan, yes, he came on the screens constantly.

27:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I guess my biggest question about this entire story line, right? [SPEAKER_01]: So he basically he's like he's in the house. [SPEAKER_01]: He's like trying to do something with the fucking microwave and Jonathan aka the first shows up and is basically like hey [SPEAKER_01]: help me out by killing all the potentials and what I don't understand is Andrew's plan of I'm going to wear a wire because correctly if I'm wrong but can't only he see in here the first the first can present themselves to whomever they want which is what the first said later in the episode [SPEAKER_00]: No, no.

27:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So like that they kind of explained it. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that I don't think was Andrew's plan. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was like Willow's plan. [SPEAKER_00]: But like I think that What they were [SPEAKER_00]: hoping for was to get the conversation between Andrew and the first through Andrew's perspective and maybe I mean he did a pretty shitty job but you know how like in the diary room they ask you to repeat the question like yes how do you feel about competition? [SPEAKER_00]: Well I feel both the competition was like it didn't go very well for me like I think that's what they anticipated but it's like do they need a wire for that? [SPEAKER_00]: Like they could just well about it from Andrew after the fact yeah, but maybe they don't totally trust Andrew as well.

28:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Like or or it's something like they're trying something and I also think that like Willow was trying to do something magicy to try to get the first voice to come in because initially when they hear the first voice They're like oh something's working or something they said something like that. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, and that but it's it's coming from everywhere [SPEAKER_00]: from everywhere and then Kennedy took off the headphones and was like, no, like, we can all hear it. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think like, they were trying to, they were trying to do something, which I can't see like a dumbass plan, I guess. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no way. [SPEAKER_00]: It was a terrible plan. [SPEAKER_00]: It's an absolute, because I don't do that. [SPEAKER_00]: You could trick the first, because the thing is, is that the first is the first evil.

29:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So therefore, anything like an affair as for evil or bad, like the first concocted that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, been there done that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and also like, [SPEAKER_00]: Andrew like I'm so sorry. [SPEAKER_01]: He's not like the FBI. [SPEAKER_00]: No, not he's not going to be able to pull this off like putting too much on him. [SPEAKER_00]: I know, but I like the fact that one of our run. [SPEAKER_00]: The first coming through is John with him was probably a bad idea because I don't really think that Andrew cares that much about John with any that he always cared. [SPEAKER_00]: about Warren 10 times more, but we got a lot of Warren so far. [SPEAKER_00]: So we had to bring back Jonathan. [SPEAKER_00]: So I like the fact that like he was like, oh, I will go down your plan.

30:07 [SPEAKER_00]: But then he's like, no, I'm going to like work with you guys. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I am trying to redeem myself. [SPEAKER_00]: And I also thought it was [SPEAKER_00]: like Jonathan as the the first as Jonathan was trying to manipulate him about like you know if you can't fit in there like they're all like you're the only ones like being forced to earn your spot like everybody else has killed somebody and they didn't have to do that which is not true because Willow had to earn everybody's trust back like onya kind of had to like [SPEAKER_00]: earned trust back, like it's, it's not true. [SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't know, I kind of don't mind Andrew, they're all the time.

30:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I also think it kind of gives Zander a break in Ania, a break from having to be the clowns all the time, because like that was role previously was to be the comedic relief, and then now they can kind of do other stuff, then trying to make like jokes about [SPEAKER_00]: like the economy. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess the only reason to keep Andrew around is to like have an eye on him. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, versus letting him out into the wild. [SPEAKER_01]: But this was just like a stupid ass plan. [SPEAKER_01]: And my other big question about this whole thing is like, why the fuck is Willow still have that good? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that just seems, I mean, I guess they have a ton of weapons anyway.

31:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So it doesn't particularly matter. [SPEAKER_01]: They do. [SPEAKER_01]: But like, there is. [SPEAKER_01]: Most people could probably pick up a gun turn off the safety and shoot it. [SPEAKER_01]: Versus like being able to wield an axe successfully, like I think that takes a little more skill than like a gun. [SPEAKER_01]: But I was just like, we still have this gun here this time. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's kind of bad. [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we need a gun safe and not a drawer and underwear drawer. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, a gun safe with a key and a lock. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what are we doing? [SPEAKER_00]: But also like how do you get rid of a gun you I guess you turned into the police? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

32:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like honestly in a river. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a terrible idea. [SPEAKER_00]: That's so bad, Jessica. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean there's this is the hell mouth like go bring it to a demon bar and leave it like that you don't need like there's it in the wrong hands like no way it's better in the whole and bury it like there's a way to get rid of it crazy no no yeah [SPEAKER_01]: But that's everything going on with Andrew, but like alongside the potentials, we now have a new potential because we heard that that jiles was off for treaving a new potential last episode, I think it was. [SPEAKER_01]: We opened up the episode with basically him being like, oh yeah, I was able to defeat the the bringer behind me because I heard his shoes.

33:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we got it. [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, we got to see the extended scene of the fringer behind about to chop off the child. [SPEAKER_00]: It was not the first. [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty cool how like he was able to sense it. [SPEAKER_00]: You said hearing, like, but he snatched the axe and like, [SPEAKER_00]: you know, or the weapon and chopped off his head. [SPEAKER_00]: And so we kind of got like a little bit of a background and an explanation like as to what happened because we didn't really get to hear the story, but we did meet our newest potential, who we deemed Ashley last week by her name is. [SPEAKER_01]: Chao Anne. [SPEAKER_01]: Chao Anne. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: And the comedy in this episode is that no one knows she only speaks like Cantonese and or was it Mandarin?

33:49 [SPEAKER_01]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a whole kerfuffle about it. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, jiles can only speak Mandarin and she speaks Cantonese. [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, [SPEAKER_00]: appreciation for the fact that there, those are two different languages, and that, yeah, and it's just not like, oh, I don't speak Chinese, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a problem was that the entire time, Giles was like pretending to translate for her, and you never actually fucking understood what she was saying. [SPEAKER_01]: And then he drew these horrible flash cards for. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that was scary. [SPEAKER_00]: But once again, that's a callback to we, there was like that episode where they did the, don't want to talk or something, right?

34:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And the sock silence was that. [SPEAKER_00]: And then they did the projector. [SPEAKER_00]: So that was the place tonight or whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: That was like another callback. [SPEAKER_01]: It was very funny. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So I, [SPEAKER_00]: whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, she's, there's somebody's going to have to communicate with her. [SPEAKER_00]: What I found stupid was that like, does Willow not have the, like, the power, like, a translator spell for God. [SPEAKER_01]: And then hack everything. [SPEAKER_01]: She also knows magic, but no one can go on Google Translate and help out her way in. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was thinking something kind of like just a translation spell, but yeah, you would think that somebody would be like some sort of an effort to understand what she's saying.

35:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, this poor girl. [SPEAKER_00]: She's lactose intolerant. [SPEAKER_00]: Giles, don't give her ice cream. [SPEAKER_01]: You fuck. [SPEAKER_00]: it was milk just like a cup of milk. [SPEAKER_01]: He also gave her ice cream and then she's like my stomach hurts poor poor angel. [SPEAKER_00]: They did get to go shopping which I was kind of jealous about because I was fun. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to go shopping at the mall and he was like complaining about the mall how it was like sticky, the food court sticky and it was like a lot of teenagers around. [SPEAKER_00]: He was very crotch-y at the same time. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm very proud of it. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I also think because he's let's face it. [SPEAKER_01]: He's living in a house with like a bazillion young women and everyone's going on dates and he's trying to like save the world from the first and so he's he's like very much getting annoyed more and more annoyed about everything and on top of that [SPEAKER_01]: he and we find out that Buffy decided against putting a chip back in Spike's head.

36:04 [SPEAKER_01]: So Giles is like the fuck, like since when does he not have a chip? [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think, okay, like what do you think you would have done in this situation? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I find Buffy. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm Buffy, I feel [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, probably like are you. [SPEAKER_00]: You were you. [SPEAKER_01]: You all so old again. [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's no say he won't lose his soul again. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: You were fighting our demons, not humans. [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So you're saying that if you were you, but you also have feelings for this vampire, then I probably am not chipping him.

36:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, even if you were you. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, also because Buffy, well, no, it doesn't matter for Buffy, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Because she's some sort of weird non-human kind of human because she came back with her DNA slightly shifted. [SPEAKER_01]: Because I was thinking, she likes that weird, let's break down the house sex. [SPEAKER_01]: So she can't have him chipped because she needs the weird, let's bring down the house sex. [SPEAKER_01]: But she also is different because of the whole tape member terror. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, what's your DNA? [SPEAKER_01]: It's slightly different because you came back from the dead. [SPEAKER_01]: That was a whole thing. [SPEAKER_01]: And we were like, this is the making any sense. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not following, but yeah, you don't remember that. [SPEAKER_00]: You're okay. [SPEAKER_00]: When she tells Tara about the night and love a spike. [SPEAKER_00]: I do know that. [SPEAKER_00]: I do know that. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just trying to see how the chip has to do with the breaking down the house.

37:29 [SPEAKER_01]: In my head, I was like, well, you can't have the funky breakdown. [SPEAKER_01]: The house sex, if he has the chip, but buffy. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the chip then that. [SPEAKER_01]: No, I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I was correcting myself. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: But either way, I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: What about you? [SPEAKER_00]: Would you chip lists or chip? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I definitely think I would, I would chip lists. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's no way. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, if I, if I had feelings for him and it's something that, like, he's wanted for all this time, then there's no way that I wouldn't be doing it. [SPEAKER_01]: And also, it's just like, well, [SPEAKER_01]: you know he theoretically has a soul now so he doesn't need a shape and that's what Buffy's argument is like he you know he's proven to us and how is he ever going to continue to prove to us if he has a chip like doing it for him we're giving him the opportunity to show us I did like Giles' argument though of like [SPEAKER_01]: the chip may not have been functioning properly when the first was controlling him.

38:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So if he had the chip, it may be the first couldn't control him more so like as a defense mechanism, not for spike to not kill humans, but for the first to not be able to control him. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was a good point. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess like worst comes to worse. [SPEAKER_00]: We can always re-chip him, maybe. [SPEAKER_01]: We call it, like Buffy would have to call the florist. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, is that really a problem? [SPEAKER_00]: Let's bring Riley back. [SPEAKER_01]: What's your time? [SPEAKER_00]: One more time. [SPEAKER_00]: Is that a problem? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so. [SPEAKER_01]: And then finally, we'll include spike in this storyline.

39:01 [SPEAKER_01]: We have the Buffy and Principal Wood storyline, which like, [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what he, again, the whole thing of Isida date isn't a date. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, ah, he's our boss. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, the whole time my brain is like winging out over that fact. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why I don't care about that sort of, I know it's like how our dynamics. [SPEAKER_00]: But like, I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: He even mentions it. [SPEAKER_01]: He's even like, oh, pretend HR had me sign off on you doing that you're not, I mean, like he even mentions it. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just uncomfortable. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know like I did like great like she thinks he's set her up because they get attacked in an alleyway alleyway by vampires, but he has a stake too and he kills a bunch of vampires.

39:45 [SPEAKER_01]: He I thought it was an interesting option to go to a French restaurant to have this like revelation to Buffy about like his lineage. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's the best spot in town, so we've never seen this before, but I don't think Buffy goes on many fancy dates. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, it's something different. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm the different. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's probably where he was intending on going with or without an attack. [SPEAKER_00]: So he's usually where we have a reservation, and I've been trying to get this reservation for months now, and we got to go. [SPEAKER_01]: So, and before they even go on the date, Buffy wants Willow to do smacking and see if what she can dig up on him.

40:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And it turns out there's like really not much information prior to him coming to Sunnydale, which of course is like a little bit of red flags us. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but turns out that he, his mother, was a slayer. [SPEAKER_01]: she was killed when he was four, he was then raised by her watcher. [SPEAKER_01]: Now, even before we got the very end of the episode, which is obviously the reveal, in my head I'm doing the math because we know they basically said sometime in this episode that like he's like 10 years older than Buffy. [SPEAKER_01]: So he's in his 30s. [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, okay, we're in the 70s. [SPEAKER_01]: So of course, I remember the like, [SPEAKER_01]: Spike Subway fight because that was one of the more fun the more fun fight to be got right when we saw Yeah, like there is the subway She has an afro the leather jacket incident, you know the whole thing So immediately I'm like oh, when I obviously we didn't know Cuz right I don't know if this pinged on your radar Sarah of like the slayers were usually very young and so I'm like oh A slayer had a kid like I guess is not out of the realm of possibility, but it was just surprising [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I never fathomed that a slayer could have a kid and neither would buffy like most of them die very, very young because a lot of them are, you know, get start when they're like 15, 16 or something like that.

41:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, there's, I mean, I'm she probably had him when he, she was a teenager and that's like very [SPEAKER_00]: normal. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I, but I just like never fathom of that could could happen. [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't seen it before. [SPEAKER_00]: She hasn't heard of it. [SPEAKER_00]: The records, number one, the records of the slayers always fucking sucked as, but number two, now they're blown up. [SPEAKER_00]: So we wouldn't, we wouldn't have known. [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I, I was very surprised, but [SPEAKER_00]: very excited about it too. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that it was really interesting because once again, I'm like, hey, like what kind of not that like principal would is like the person, but like when we talk about like the right person for Buffy, we're like, has to be something special, has to be something supernatural.

42:36 [SPEAKER_00]: We did not fathom somebody that was like in the know because their mother and cousin, [SPEAKER_00]: was a slayer, so they like, no, and then this is extra special because like his watch or her watch or rather trained him as well, which I thought that was great. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was a really, really cool thing. [SPEAKER_00]: And Buffy seems really excited about it too because I think like for the first time she was like [SPEAKER_00]: That could be me like I could maybe have a family. [SPEAKER_01]: I could have a family. [SPEAKER_01]: I could. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it was also, I think it was nice for her to also be able to check out the list like the like principle.

43:19 [SPEAKER_01]: What isn't evil, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Like yes, like that, you know, seemingly he's not evil on her side, but like also you're still doing good things, but I guess he was just like patrolling the school because he knew who's the hell mouth. [SPEAKER_01]: Right, and I don't know why it took him this long to reveal this to Buffy right like you think like you know who she was But but I also am very curious about who his watcher is or was because her who has mom's watch right mean [SPEAKER_01]: that raised him because if she was in the right. [SPEAKER_01]: So this was the 70s that this happened. [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to add 30 years on to like whoever this watcher would be and we know they love the watchers to be old white men.

43:59 [SPEAKER_01]: So like right. [SPEAKER_00]: Is this guy alive? [SPEAKER_00]: Did he get blown up in the [SPEAKER_01]: right. [SPEAKER_01]: So, especially because he doesn't really met, he just says watcher, he doesn't mention name, he doesn't mention like much more about him. [SPEAKER_01]: But we know now that the whole reason, like basically principle what has been learning to fight and he stayed up on everything because he wants to have interest mothers to death right. [SPEAKER_01]: He knows it was a vampire. [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I just kill as many as I can because maybe one of them killed her. [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean like, [SPEAKER_01]: we all knew where this was coming right like we all knew it's like [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, a vampire killed your mom.

44:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Who's the one vampire that we hang out with constantly? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was exciting. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think that. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was probably, I'm glad I'm giving credit to the show that they didn't try to prolong this. [SPEAKER_01]: But they didn't try to be like, let's let this mystery linger, you know? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, right at the end of the episode, please. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, once you saw the, [SPEAKER_00]: The first coming as his mom and like I like I don't know if I like made the connection before Her coming into the scene, but like obviously I saw like [SPEAKER_00]: you know, the woman with the Afro and how memorable her death was.

45:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And that whole episode, it was all around like Spike hasn't been known to have killed two sliders. [SPEAKER_00]: That is for a vampire, very rare. [SPEAKER_00]: Like it doesn't, it's like a big deal that he killed two sliders. [SPEAKER_00]: Because I think like Angel never even killed a slayer. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that was the thing was that that was like [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, she's in the jacket too. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, well, that was like, that was my favorite thing was that, like, that was the connection that I had made was that, like, oh, he killed her and took her jacket and the entire time he has been wearing a slayer's leather jacket.

46:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that he is walking around in that leather jacket in front of principal wood mother got killed like I was like you are telling me that principal that he is walking around leather jacket in his mother in principal woods mothers leather jacket like right in front of him like holy crap like when he realizes that [SPEAKER_00]: I am like, you get fucking decked in the face. [SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: I just think it's like, that was like crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: It was a very cool call back. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was not anticipating that I did not. [SPEAKER_00]: I was surprised. [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought that was really, really, really. [SPEAKER_01]: It was really good.

46:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, this is a thing in shows and movies in whatever, when you have like a mystery box sort of thing. [SPEAKER_01]: If someone can guess where it's going, that is not a bad thing, it means that you've laid out hints that really were viewers for paying attention. [SPEAKER_01]: So good. [SPEAKER_01]: And so good. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like having him in the jacket and having him in spike meet when they have to go save Zander as an as a result, spike gets Vamp face. [SPEAKER_01]: So he realizes that spike is a vampire, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Like these wearing the jacket, like all of these things are kind of happening. [SPEAKER_01]: all to the lead to the big reveal at the end that we get the first who's showing up as his mom and basically revealing to him yeah like no spike killed me like duh yeah so like obviously he's going to try to kill spike right he's not going to because obviously we obviously know like we [SPEAKER_00]: But it's definitely going to be a rift between Buffy and Principal Wood.

47:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It was already awkward, like he... [SPEAKER_00]: spike crashed the date and the principal what already knew that there was like something like weird between them even before it was revealed that like there's a van but like after they have the fight with a shanti underneath the school but he goes like right to spike being like are you okay and like yeah doesn't even like [SPEAKER_00]: pay attention to Zander, who is like the whole reason why they like rushed over there. [SPEAKER_00]: Eventually and that sort of like he has realization like, oh, like there's something we're going on here. [SPEAKER_00]: And then he finds out that he's a vampire and he just spent like all this time and like, you know, he doesn't get like the nuance.

48:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Like he doesn't know number one that. [SPEAKER_00]: Spike was chipped number two, Spike has a soul now. [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't know that like Buffy has a history of dating. [SPEAKER_00]: Another soulful vampire, like he just thinks like all vampires equals bad. [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of like bless you well. [SPEAKER_00]: kind of like kind of like Kendra did like she did not get the nuance like she just saw vampire and was like vampire bad. [SPEAKER_00]: So um yeah like I think it's going to be like a lot of like explanation and I don't think that he's going to exactly understand or get it, especially now that he has the realization that like [SPEAKER_00]: This is a person that murdered my mother.

49:21 [SPEAKER_00]: There's not going to be any forgiveness. [SPEAKER_00]: He's not going to be able to see any nuance. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not going to be awkward. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just going to throw yet another difficult thing to have to navigate on top of already having to deal with the first, which is big enough. [SPEAKER_01]: But now we have inner turmoil, inner scuby squad, and our good guy squad, which now includes [SPEAKER_01]: He obviously is not going to want to be on the same side of Spike, and he's been waiting what 30 something years to avenge his mother's death. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

50:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: I really liked this reveal. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it worked really well. [SPEAKER_01]: It was a really lovely callback to like one of the more memorable spike fight scenes. [SPEAKER_01]: And just like the continuation of the jacket, I really was that. [SPEAKER_00]: episode, the okay, was the episode that we see him killed the two slayers also the episode where we find out like how he turned into a vampire in the first place was that all the same episode? [SPEAKER_01]: No, the one where we find out how he turned into a vampire was much older. [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was much longer ago, I think. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, because if that was all one episode, where we were like, oh, he was a fucking demeanee loser and then we find out that he can, I think that was the same as episode just, I don't know.

50:48 [SPEAKER_01]: That was a whole different one. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, because if that is all one episode, I think that might be the best episode about the ever. [SPEAKER_01]: because it was a, oh yeah, in order to like, yes, set the stage for everything else. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so that was kind of our Buffy episode. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think anything else happened. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that like the Buffy principle would like romance stuff has any legs? [SPEAKER_01]: Like do you think there's anything there? [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm. [SPEAKER_00]: Me. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like they're trying something.

51:28 [SPEAKER_00]: They're, I feel like they're going to kind of play this out, but I don't think that it's actually going to be anything. [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's just too much with the spike stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I think they might, I agree with you. [SPEAKER_01]: They might try to be like, [SPEAKER_01]: That was the secret so just was it. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know my head up season five episode seven. [SPEAKER_00]: That's all one episode. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the best episode. [SPEAKER_01]: That's the one where will like William the bloody boring or is that? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_01]: That was all one episode. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: That's really the best episode of buffet.

52:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I think credible season five. [SPEAKER_00]: Like we got glorious. [SPEAKER_00]: Nope. [SPEAKER_00]: It's a glorious season. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, no five. [SPEAKER_01]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: Wait. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Why are we so bad at this? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Five was glory. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Best season best episode. [SPEAKER_00]: Good shot. [SPEAKER_00]: Now I'm just saying stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: I can't. [SPEAKER_01]: My brain doesn't work anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, let's see. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: So that was our that was our Buffy episode. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Angel this week. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: I watched [SPEAKER_00]: did. [SPEAKER_00]: Last week's episode and this week's episode. [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

52:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh. [SPEAKER_00]: I did now. [SPEAKER_00]: So the thing is is that it's still made me fall asleep the first time. [SPEAKER_00]: But I was also like holding my babies very snugly. [SPEAKER_00]: So but I do think it's like a hack for me. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, do I need to fall asleep? [SPEAKER_00]: That one's pretty unusual. [SPEAKER_00]: But it was all I will say. [SPEAKER_00]: Everything that has faith in it is compelling [SPEAKER_00]: I totally agree. [SPEAKER_01]: I think like any time Faith is on the screen, I'm intrigued. [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, for those who didn't watch, basically it's like the hunt for Angelus is this episode. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like we've got Wesley and Faith trying to track him down.

53:30 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got Cordelia being pregnant and manipulating Connor, but also Cordelia is really Cordelia because she has like white eyes and it's really weird. [SPEAKER_01]: and a ball, and it's a glowy ball. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that she speaks through. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: She sounds like a man when she's speaks through it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a voice manipulator. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then, uh, and so we have a lot [SPEAKER_01]: And the faith Wesley thing is so fascinating because I had kind of forgotten that she like pretty much almost killed him at one point And that was like right before she went off to jail and everything I did what did you think about the actual fight scene at the very end between like faith and and jealous with like Wesley at going down the Not soft it's what are they called scaffolding [SPEAKER_00]: It just made me think that maybe Angel and Buffy were meant to be together forever because of how much they acted in their fights.

54:35 [SPEAKER_00]: They loved to be sassy during a fight. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's the only thing that I kind of took out of it. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, obviously he beat her ass. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and she really got done. [SPEAKER_01]: She got fucked up. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, but that was my main takeaway. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, Angel, won't you just shut the fuck up or [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I also really shot out to the scene of of faith and Wesley interrogating the guy at the demon bar after he like he almost got his throat pulled out by in jealous. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Constantly like whack on the table. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, whack, whack. [SPEAKER_00]: Then like what's he had like that gun thingy and just killing everybody. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: The other crazy thing is like, okay, we've talked about this and I guess.

55:19 [SPEAKER_01]: it doesn't always like necessarily come to my brain the fact that like the first time we meet Wesley he's like the biggest diva of all the diva sits in in Buffy and now he's like literally stabbing a woman who is like obviously a drug addict. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then like somebody in the episode, I don't know if it was this one of the last one that was like, hey, pretty boy. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, but since when? [SPEAKER_00]: But I guess that's what he gets. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I think the thing that also stands out in this episode is the absolute fuckery between Cordelia and Connor, just the words that were said out loud, just absolutely murdered me.

56:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, just, [SPEAKER_00]: Like, whenever Cordelia says that we're daddy in general, I want to step my throw out. [SPEAKER_00]: You wrote a later quote, but the earlier go. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: What was the earlier quote? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember. [SPEAKER_00]: I, it will make me puke. [SPEAKER_00]: Let me by you talk later. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the later quote that I wrote down because I fell on had to pause the show I was laughing so hard was, [SPEAKER_01]: uh, Connor says, I don't even know what I am. [SPEAKER_01]: And Amelia says, I do. [SPEAKER_01]: You're a daddy. [SPEAKER_01]: You're a daddy. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you're a daddy.

56:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I hate it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's the worst. [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually the worst. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's really bad. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why any of this is happening. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, because they hate us. [SPEAKER_00]: That's [SPEAKER_00]: Cool. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there. [SPEAKER_00]: Hey. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Is that it? [SPEAKER_00]: Is that all the parts of the episode? [SPEAKER_01]: um let's see uh yeah basically in jealous is oh he basically in jealous wants to find whoever was controlling the beast because like he's like the fuck like I already killed the beast now I need to find who was controlling it um but obviously Cordelia's just been like hold up in her hotel room no one seems to be checking on her which is also kind of funny [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hold up.

57:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Why is she stuck in the hotel room? [SPEAKER_01]: Why is nobody checking it? [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see. [SPEAKER_01]: She got hit with like a crossbow bolt when in jealous got away and I think they think she's just recovering and that Connor's been the one checking it on her because he comes back down He's like she wants soup. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh So stupid. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, here. [SPEAKER_00]: Here we go. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, please. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah, it's the same, this is, I do your daddy and daddy's needs to take responsibility corner. [SPEAKER_00]: You need a face that, in fact, that we're special. [SPEAKER_00]: Like our baby's going to be. [SPEAKER_00]: Conner's like, I'm really going to be a father, the best. [SPEAKER_00]: And the only thing you have to worry about is keeping of safe.

58:22 [SPEAKER_01]: You! [SPEAKER_01]: I hate it. [SPEAKER_01]: I hate it, daddy. [SPEAKER_00]: Daddy's needs to take responsibility. [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like, [SPEAKER_01]: If anybody else had gone into that room with Cordelia, they could be like this ain't her. [SPEAKER_01]: This ain't this ain't her, she's not in her right mind. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, Connor is useless, suck a shit. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, here's so bad. [SPEAKER_01]: It's so bad. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Connor, okay, Connor slash the pregnancy is the worst thing that's happened to the show. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not close. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can't think of anything worse than color and the pregnancy.

59:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And then also like so this all this beat so it's also growing fast kind of like runes may slash Connor was Yeah, she has like girl pregnant stomach and like and then we also get Connor like checking to see if he has like things because let's be fair like Connor [SPEAKER_01]: is born from two vampires, Cordelia, while originally human, then became like a higher being. [SPEAKER_01]: So like, what the fuck are they going to create together? [SPEAKER_01]: You know? [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's why he's like, when am I? [SPEAKER_01]: And then that's why you're dead. [SPEAKER_01]: You're a daddy. [SPEAKER_01]: You're a daddy. [SPEAKER_01]: She didn't get the memo that daddy is actually daddy dials and she needs to fucking recognize.

59:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess so daddy Giles was really grumpy. [SPEAKER_00]: He was grand-pappy Giles today. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he was get off my non-Giles. [SPEAKER_01]: Now here's the question, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Because obviously Cordelia is not really Cordelia in these moments, like whoever knows what's going on. [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. [SPEAKER_01]: But like, is there any hope? [SPEAKER_01]: for a angel Cordelia romance in the future. [SPEAKER_01]: Now that she literally has fucked some multiple times and is bearing his son's child. [SPEAKER_01]: Not sure. [SPEAKER_01]: His grandchild will be mothered by Cordelia. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a normal Tuesday and Kentucky.

1:00:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say, like not for me, not for anybody that's sane. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think, like, I don't understand like how this is something that anybody would want for them to work out. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't like them to begin with together. [SPEAKER_00]: So, no, I don't know, is there have a you, what do you think? [SPEAKER_01]: No, and my, but my other big concern is that they're, like, are they going to try to make a face angel thing happen. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, but now that I was kind of sniffing out, but once again. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't really want that. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just thinking of something that I'm just sniffing it out.

1:01:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I am a detective. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't want that either. [SPEAKER_00]: You know. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Also, can we just talk about, um, I meant to be in this episode with this top of the podcast, uh, but because you watched it, the, the gratuitous faith shower scene. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, yes, it's like a lot of douche coup what's living. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like we know your hot like we don't You don't need to like force it and I want to remind us how hot she was yeah Also reminds me of the 1970s movie carry. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm in a whole carry thing. [SPEAKER_01]: You really are I like that sweater by the way I just noticed it when you pulled the sleeve up. [SPEAKER_01]: What is it? [SPEAKER_01]: Dox or is it hearts? [SPEAKER_01]: I can't sell [SPEAKER_00]: It's holes, dogs, oh, it's neither okay.

1:01:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like you can put your finger through it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just that I don't know that I would like that because I feel like I would accidentally like it's nice because it's nice to sweater breezy. [SPEAKER_01]: I do like the I like the cuff no one that we're on video. [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't I'm going to I might this I've had this sweater for many years and I'm like. [SPEAKER_00]: every year like seeing you wear this exactly every year I'm like I don't know if I like this sweater well it's because it's not a fucking turtle neck that's why it's like out of my comfort zone a little bit so I got her neck is showing her neck is showing people well and it's like colorful and so I was just thinking like if you like it maybe I'll send it to you okay I just need the people on the audio only medium to understand what Sarah said when she says it's colorful [SPEAKER_01]: On camera, it appears to be the lightest shade of pink or white that you could ever imagine.

1:02:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's pink. [SPEAKER_01]: It's pink. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, like, like, like pink stripes. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it is kind of, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: But they're so, they're so close. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a beige and light light pink stripe. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: The cuffs and the like neckline are like a navy blue with white. [SPEAKER_01]: There's hardly a color to be seen. [SPEAKER_00]: There's so much color. [SPEAKER_00]: But no, I mean, because every single year I'm like, do I want to get rid of this? [SPEAKER_00]: But when I eventually do awesome tears, this is the moral of the story. [SPEAKER_00]: Unbelievable. [SPEAKER_00]: If you like it. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, this was the funniest part about back to the chair, the chair saga from yesterday. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: The best part about this whole situation was the chair that we liked, came in like, there were three floor colors, which was, and they had like other options you could get.

1:03:33 [SPEAKER_01]: But like three floor colors, there was like a very light gray, [SPEAKER_01]: There was a white one which I was like absolutely fucking not and there was a the color is called peacock Which it was very like a deep bluey green. [SPEAKER_01]: I would say Then they had you could you could upgrade if you wanted like the leather like thing which I was like, we're not now because we're like three hundred dollars more I know thank you [SPEAKER_01]: And then there was like, if you want, they had other fabric samples, if you wanted what of those, it was going to cost like over $100 more. [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was like, well, no, I'm not going to pay more. [SPEAKER_01]: I'll just get one of the ones that start here. [SPEAKER_01]: And so we were tween like the gray one. [SPEAKER_01]: I really liked a light green that was on the swatches. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I did want to pay more.

1:04:15 [SPEAKER_01]: It's been really like the peacock one and I was like, oh, but we'll go with the nursery and then I was like, you know what? [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do it. [SPEAKER_01]: Let's get the peacock one and I was like, Sarah's going to hate this, but I love it. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't right. [SPEAKER_00]: concerned like it's actually serious, but like I'm just curious how it will go with the rest of the nursery that it was more of like that's why like the light green because it was more. [SPEAKER_01]: woodlandy, in my opinion, then the peacock green, which again, let's think about peacock, what you think peacock green would be.

1:04:58 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a very, like turquoise, deep turquoise, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: But I think we'll make it work. [SPEAKER_01]: And then like, also we were thinking like long run. [SPEAKER_01]: This is a show we wanted to buy a chair that we could then put in our living room that's like, yes, we're not buying it for like a fucking year and then never using it again. [SPEAKER_01]: And we, yeah, I mean, like, there's, that thing is, [SPEAKER_01]: You think buying a chair will be very easy. [SPEAKER_01]: It is not. [SPEAKER_01]: It's not. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's also tricky when you're tall because like you want something where your head is going to be rested. [SPEAKER_01]: So if it's too short, that's not going to work. [SPEAKER_01]: And my god, having a manual recliner, I consider myself a fairly strong person.

1:05:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of those things were no joke. [SPEAKER_01]: Like it was like, what am I? [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, he man to open this [SPEAKER_00]: Um, we didn't get the stick opener. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you got the little poll guy. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And I we tried a lot of the stick openers. [SPEAKER_00]: They were not good. [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't find the little poll to be hard to open. [SPEAKER_00]: But that one is not difficult to open. [SPEAKER_00]: No, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: The stick was though. [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_00]: That was crazy. [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway. [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I don't know how, but how do we get to peacock chairs to go color sweater? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, the sweater. [SPEAKER_01]: We got on the sweater. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, that was the episode of Angel. [SPEAKER_01]: There really wasn't much else going on, I think. [SPEAKER_01]: Poor Lauren does get knocked out with the dart though.

1:06:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I was concerned for him. [SPEAKER_01]: I love him. [SPEAKER_00]: I love when he gets a gun. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, the shots I'm used to are tequila. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't have fun. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Lord. [SPEAKER_01]: What a fun time guy. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and Cordy is like, Connor, don't tell anyone that I'm pregnant. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like, but also this is like an expedite pregnancy and they'll find out soon enough. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be Bella Swan, Rosalind, Bella Swan. [SPEAKER_01]: Is that her last name? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, look at me. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, look at her. [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, we did get some feedback. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, we got a text from our good friend Hanna, um, who says long time listener, multiple time guest host, first time writer, welcome to the season of Big Plots and Bigger Speaches.

1:07:09 [SPEAKER_01]: When Giles says at the end of the episode, be serious. [SPEAKER_01]: This is no time for fun, only plot, I'm paraphrasing. [SPEAKER_01]: It perfectly sums up my feelings on a lot of season 7. [SPEAKER_01]: At this point, the characters are so rich and well developed that I'd rather watch them sit around and encrypt and talk for an hour. [SPEAKER_01]: or partake and shenanigans, then deal never ending plot and a thousand new characters. [SPEAKER_01]: Season 7 isn't without its strengths, it leads heavily into shows thesis, exploring what it means to be the chosen one, and carry the Sisyphus... No, she didn't. [SPEAKER_00]: No, so like, she typed out this word and I was like, girl, like, is this a setup? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, why are you trying to sabotage us like this? [SPEAKER_01]: Sisyphusian, is that how you say that?

1:07:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Sister Sophia, I'm not even going to a time date because of this. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm almost just a fist, but I don't know how to make that into this word. [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to know if there's a word that way? [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, no people know what I'm saying. [SPEAKER_01]: Sisyph, Sisyphian, responsibility of defending the world. [SPEAKER_01]: I also think the first is a fun vehicle for bringing back memorable big beds from seasons past. [SPEAKER_01]: I do agree with you that the glory actress needed the same agent as the Warren actor. [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Hannah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: My question is, if saving a world dependent on you delivering one, improvised, rousing, speech to your friends and family, [SPEAKER_00]: slow pressure.

1:08:36 [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: It the world was up to me and I had to use my words to convince I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean maybe like a friend, a friend, a close friend. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a [SPEAKER_01]: want to improv. [SPEAKER_01]: I think the problem is improvised. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know improvised if I could. [SPEAKER_01]: If I time to think about it, maybe I could. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I would be better improvised than if I had to write it out. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not very good at writing in general.

1:09:18 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think I am better at off the cuff, but do you think if I wrote it though, it would be long-winded. [SPEAKER_01]: I think. [SPEAKER_01]: Also, Hannah says, um, uh, as someone in graduate school to become a clinician, uh, Buffy could really benefit from them super vision in her new job as a counselor. [SPEAKER_01]: Instead of every one laughing at her, let's get her some education and support. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and she really, uh, she really is, uh, everybody was making fun of her, at this episode of like she was getting it like fire to like, oh, you're definitely getting a promotion. [SPEAKER_00]: that like you're not that good at this or like she was like oh principal would like so you didn't hire me based off of my like like acumen and he's like no like no way yeah yeah everybody's been out of her the sub so poor poor puppy I hired you because you're the slayer you're the slayer I needed you close by yeah [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so that was our our message from Hannah, thank you so much, Hannah.

1:10:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and also I need to shout out Tom Palmer and not shout him out, but call him out when last podcast he said I was really impressed by faith, super power being able to remember people's names after Wesley told her them. [SPEAKER_01]: Listen, yeah, he told her the names, but he didn't necessarily have pictures to go along with them. [SPEAKER_01]: And she did recall all of that information, which is impressive. [SPEAKER_01]: I think [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you're wrong in my opinion, even if she decided to definitely fuck up Wesley's security to cause it by destroying his shower. [SPEAKER_00]: Faith has done a lot of things wrong, and that's why she got kicked out of Buffy land and sent to prison, which is angel.

1:11:07 [SPEAKER_01]: We also got an email from Joy. [SPEAKER_01]: Hi ladies first of all let me say congratulations to Jess very happy for you and yours I'm sorry it took me this long to send an email every time I would catch up another episode would be out before I could get my thoughts down I still don't know if they're gonna be cohesive, but I will try it's gonna be a long email sorry in advance [SPEAKER_01]: So general stuff, I love how much you guys love Fred. [SPEAKER_01]: She's one of my favorite characters and I name the cat Fred because of her. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's so cute. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think it's fascinating that y'all love Dawn because most people found her to be annoying. [SPEAKER_01]: But you hate Jonathan and when most people loved him. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, writers included, which is probably why they kept having come back and come back.

1:11:47 [SPEAKER_01]: God, but he's annoying. [SPEAKER_00]: I think they found a good spot for Dawn. [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like I can act with her because like, gosh, it has to be tough being like the younger sister of this layer, you know? [SPEAKER_01]: You can connect to that. [SPEAKER_01]: Well, she's a younger sister. [SPEAKER_01]: I personally love him and Andrew. [SPEAKER_01]: I think the first isn't a he or she, but it's the embodiment of evil. [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't think it has a gender. [SPEAKER_01]: it is a canon event to hate Connor. [SPEAKER_01]: We've all been there. [SPEAKER_01]: It's also pretty understood that the Connor and Cordelia stuff was awful. [SPEAKER_01]: My husband and I also loved Gwen, the electricity girl, I loved her.

1:12:31 [SPEAKER_01]: She could have been a fun fling for Angel, Wesley and Lila. [SPEAKER_01]: Look, I know y'all didn't care for Wesley's dark turn, the scruff, the attitude, the sharper edges, and you don't find him attractive. [SPEAKER_01]: That's fine. [SPEAKER_01]: You could be wrong, LL. [SPEAKER_01]: Now to eat her own, [SPEAKER_01]: but one of my favorite toxic ships is Laila and Wesley. [SPEAKER_01]: We all know they can't last, Laila is still not one of the good guys, and she's proud of that. [SPEAKER_01]: I won't change. [SPEAKER_01]: And of Wesley will eventually be back with the main crew, but for those handful of episodes, I really enjoyed them being together. [SPEAKER_01]: I think they both ended up meaning more to each other than they expected, especially seeing how Wesley took her death. [SPEAKER_01]: There were genuine feelings on both sides. [SPEAKER_01]: Not enough to change who they are, but I think sometimes those kinds of relationships are just as [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and the scene of Faith breaking out of jail is so badass, which agreed.

1:13:19 [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't talk, I forgot to mention, on the podcast era, the scene when Faith and Wesley breakout of jail. [SPEAKER_01]: Kicks through a window, her and Wesley go flying out the window, fall like multiple stories in the land on a car, and Wesley just gets up and walks away like he's super human. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, oh, it's what? [SPEAKER_01]: If he is, you don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: So that scene was funny. [SPEAKER_01]: I think Joy is making some good points about the Lila Wesley relationship. [SPEAKER_01]: I think our never cared about Lila. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it's not that we [SPEAKER_00]: didn't care about Lila or maybe we don't, but it's more so, a symptom of us not caring about Wolfram and Hart as less angels big bad.

1:14:08 [SPEAKER_01]: This is correct, and she was like an accessory to that. [SPEAKER_01]: So we really didn't, yeah, no, totally true. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, on to some serious stuff, I can't cite my sources, but they do exist. [SPEAKER_01]: Charisma carpenter and James Marsters have talk about [SPEAKER_01]: talked about how the creators treated them poorly at times. [SPEAKER_01]: Spike and Buffy were always supposed to be seen as toxic, but the fans kept liking him together. [SPEAKER_01]: So the creator would push it further and further and further, but the fans still love Spuffy, which is why we got seeing Red aka the raid episode. [SPEAKER_01]: He wanted the fans to hate that pairing and see how bad it was, so he went to those extremes. [SPEAKER_01]: And with charisma, it was about her pregnancy. [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't like that he had to write her real life pregnancy into the show and he even tried to convince her not to keep the baby because of the difficulty it would cause she refused and without spoiling anything that changed how a lot of season four of Angel proceeded.

1:15:06 [SPEAKER_01]: That is so fucked, and also no one made you write it into the storyline guy, like had we seen a sitcom where the woman just stands behind a grocery bag a few times, like, what are you talking about? [SPEAKER_01]: You didn't have to do any of that. [SPEAKER_01]: Are they talking about just, I presume? [SPEAKER_01]: But maybe there's a different creator at this point, or maybe there's a different writer at this point? [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Are they going to kill off courty because they don't know what to do with her? [SPEAKER_01]: No, because she's going to have a fucking baby and a weird ass way, probably. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to claw its way out of her stomach. [UNKNOWN]: Wait. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: It's why all that y'all talked about Darla dying to give birth to Connor and seeing her in the last episode I listened to because those are the two things I wanted to talk about even though they happened over a season ago ago.

1:15:54 [SPEAKER_01]: The Darla thing I remember one of you saying it felt very pro-life, but I don't think so. [SPEAKER_01]: Darla coming back human was actually one of my favorite mini-arks. [SPEAKER_01]: She's human again dealing with a soul. [SPEAKER_01]: Finds out she's going to die of syphilis just like when she was human at first and you're going through the tribe [SPEAKER_01]: Angel goes through the trials to save her. [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't work because she's already living her second chance. [SPEAKER_01]: The chance to die is a human and out of a demon. [SPEAKER_01]: She accepts it and then her choice is taken away and you're still a turn to her. [SPEAKER_01]: And while it's very entertaining when they team up, it's a tragic in a way because darles choice was taken away. [SPEAKER_01]: magic rules, magical rules break, Darla becomes pregnant with angels child and the child soul affects her. [SPEAKER_01]: She gets a third chance to do the right thing.

1:16:35 [SPEAKER_01]: She sacrifices her only for her child. [SPEAKER_01]: And while it may seem like a corrupted right wing pro-life stance, I always thought as a beautiful full circle moment of daughter choice. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that seems like um, [SPEAKER_00]: that seems like I I think I was saying that it sounds like I didn't get it you know what I mean oh no I don't think I got it either I think that like maybe we just like didn't get it but if we had you know like sometimes like we don't [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes like a lot of our reactions are like off the cuff and we also are like thinking deeply about you don't have the time to or like a lot of you have watched this multiple times and throughout many years.

1:17:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But it seems as though like off the cuff. [SPEAKER_00]: It sounded like some sort of like true life thing, but with you explaining it like that is like the definition of choice Like she had the choice to save Connor, which might have been the wrong choice But at least she had a choice, which is like she did not have a choice when she was dying of a syphilis And she became a vampire [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes the simplest gets to you. [SPEAKER_01]: No, I know, I know it is very funny. [SPEAKER_01]: No, really good points being made. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, like it is, I love Star like coming back around it. [SPEAKER_01]: Also something we totally brushed over in the angel episode that I forgot about was Faith getting bit by angel to the very end of the episode and like the fucks up.

1:18:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Is he not ready to kill her? [SPEAKER_01]: And he like basically dawns her and doesn't end then by turn at the end of the episode. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But then also like she would need to. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And then for the one I'm going to be as delicate as I can be, spike, despite the creator being an asshole and putting buffenspikes for seeing red because of his own irritations with the fandom, I can almost understand it. [SPEAKER_01]: I hate it, but it did serve a purpose. [SPEAKER_01]: I think we can forget that spike is still evil. [SPEAKER_01]: He's got a chipping his head, but he doesn't have a soul. [SPEAKER_01]: And while he can have feelings of affection or even love, [SPEAKER_01]: It's missing something because he doesn't have a soul. [SPEAKER_01]: If you go back and look at all the vampire relationships in jealous and darles, spike in dracillus, spike in buffy, there's no selflessness in them.

1:18:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Love at its purest is selfless, wanting the best for that person no matter what. [SPEAKER_01]: My fear, ah! [SPEAKER_01]: One of my favorite examples of this is from Dawson's Creek. [SPEAKER_01]: Pacy's the simple act of being in love with you is enough for me. [SPEAKER_01]: So you're off the hook. [SPEAKER_01]: No expectations, no wanting anything back, just a love, [SPEAKER_01]: So back to Spike, I love him, but he's selfish. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm rewatching one of my husband and his friend who's never seen it, and we're in Season 5, and Spike is a vampire nice guy, doing things and expecting something in return. [SPEAKER_01]: That's not a true love. [SPEAKER_01]: Season 6 with Spuffy is no different, and the culmination of that is seeing red. [SPEAKER_01]: Spike and Buffy have had a fairly toxic relationship. [SPEAKER_01]: He pushes her consent from no to yes on occasion, and they could be very violent towards each other.

1:19:38 [SPEAKER_01]: But every time Buffy is the one who's stronger physically. [SPEAKER_01]: There isn't this risk of having to acquiesce so she doesn't die, like real world women are forced to do. [SPEAKER_01]: Buffy is the slayer. [SPEAKER_01]: She could end something she didn't want. [SPEAKER_01]: That's Mike's understanding. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a bit of a different situation in real life, and I think that might be why so many can forgive Spike. [SPEAKER_01]: There could be a manipulative piece of shit at times, but it's ability to hurt or first force, Buffy is limited. [SPEAKER_01]: And seeing right when that happens, Buffy's at her weakest, since maybe helpless, she's seriously injured. [SPEAKER_01]: Spike thinks things are the same where she could stop [SPEAKER_01]: and that selfishly he can make her want him again. [SPEAKER_01]: But that is not the case and when he finally understands that, what Spike almost did to a woman, he feels the closest approximation of love for, that is the catalyst for him to get his soul because of what he almost did.

1:20:24 [SPEAKER_01]: This chipped soulless being chose to seek out a soul, not to get his chip out, not to become willing in the blood he wants more, but to get his soul. [SPEAKER_01]: And that distinction is what makes why it's so fascinating character for me. [SPEAKER_01]: You know, maybe he won't ever be redeemed in your eyes and that's okay. [SPEAKER_01]: They're quite a few people who don't like spike at all. [SPEAKER_01]: But there are those like me who think he has one of the best character arcs along with Query and Wesley. [SPEAKER_01]: Time will tell and I think about how often media portrays a man's growth by exploding a woman trauma, but that's a whole other conversation. [SPEAKER_01]: This is really interesting perspective. [SPEAKER_01]: I think my biggest problem, well, two problems. [SPEAKER_01]: it feeling like the writer just wants to punish the viewers.

1:21:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that just, this is not the right way to go about. [SPEAKER_01]: You want to punish your viewers because they like the chemistry that like two of your actors have and like want them to be together, like grow up a little bit, you know? [SPEAKER_01]: But my other big problem is that like, [SPEAKER_01]: I still feel like we could have gotten here without attempted rape. [SPEAKER_01]: We could have seen, these are very, very capable actors. [SPEAKER_01]: We could have seen those emotions and that follow through in that character. [SPEAKER_01]: without needing to push it that far. [SPEAKER_01]: The reason the writer pushed it that far is because he wanted to punish us for liking that couple, and he wanted to be like, he has no soul, don't you see?

1:21:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, okay, it just feels very cool. [SPEAKER_01]: And I may push back slightly also against the like spike being unable to hurt Buffy, because like physically sure, yes. [SPEAKER_01]: Emotionally though like it has nothing to do with her being a slayer or not, you know, like you can emotionally hurt someone no matter what it doesn't matter if they're the slayer or not. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I just think like I'll never quite agree with it and it's always going to be something that sticks in the back of my mind when I'm like thinking of the character of spike and that's really unfortunate you know what I mean yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that once again I need like.

1:22:28 [SPEAKER_00]: the benefit of what most of our listeners have. [SPEAKER_00]: And that is both Angel and Buffy in totality and retrospect of the full story, the full character arc. [SPEAKER_00]: And seeing how that influences my opinion on the character. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's true. [SPEAKER_01]: We haven't seen everything at [SPEAKER_01]: uh Joyce has that concludes my latest installment of essays. [SPEAKER_01]: I hope you don't hate me we could never uh it will be interesting to see how you feel about the end of bullshows till next time by yeah see um the end of bullshows always on the same age yeah i guess absolutely lovely um thank you so much for [SPEAKER_01]: your feedback joy and Hannah, we adore it.

1:23:18 [SPEAKER_01]: We love it. [SPEAKER_01]: There's so obviously the show is very nuanced and a lot of people have seen it many times. [SPEAKER_01]: Same could be set for Angel, and we are coming in with like Angel takes like, we're talking about like 10 minutes max, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be things we're going to miss. [SPEAKER_01]: But we always appreciate people sending in and feedback. [SPEAKER_01]: And like we'll see apparently next episode of Angel's supposed to be a doozy. [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll [SPEAKER_01]: Pull up the names are of the episodes. [SPEAKER_01]: I do see. [SPEAKER_01]: We've got season seven episode 15 of Buffie. [SPEAKER_01]: Get it done. [SPEAKER_01]: Get it done. [SPEAKER_01]: Good done. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, excuse me. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, season four episode 15 of Angel Orfius.

1:24:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Is Orfius from a Hades town or is that someone else? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, oh, husband just said, yeah, which one is he? [SPEAKER_01]: Well, which one is Orfius? [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he's the guy who, like, fucks up. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I hate orifice. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I know you forgive him and you love him. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Todd, the librarian. [SPEAKER_01]: This is the call out to you specifically, but I don't forgive him. [SPEAKER_01]: He had one rule. [SPEAKER_00]: Don't look back. [SPEAKER_01]: That's it. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not that hard. [SPEAKER_00]: Don't look back if you don't look back in the entire voyage, then the girl will still be there. [SPEAKER_01]: And you, spoiler is for Haiti's time. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we can't have some fuck. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like based on like Greek myth or something, isn't it? [SPEAKER_01]: That's like, spoilers for Romeo and Juliet.

1:24:41 [SPEAKER_01]: The story is all this fuck, I know. [SPEAKER_01]: I had no idea what the story of Hadie's time was though until we went and saw it. [SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen the movie version as a good? [SPEAKER_00]: That's the only version that I've seen. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's with the original cast. [SPEAKER_00]: So I believe if it's kind of like the Hamilton movie version. [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's a, you know, it's a recording of the play. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like wicked where it's like a movie. [SPEAKER_00]: if you're going to see like the best version of Hamilton or the best version of Haiti's town like you would see the yeah we saw more of a local introduction of of Haiti's town it was good but like if you don't like the story if the issue that you have was Haiti but Haiti's town was the story then watching the original cast is not going to fix that.

1:25:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I, it wasn't, it wasn't like, we'll really like it. [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't necessarily for me. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, the only other thing is like, you know, since it's mostly sung, like, when you're watching a live production, they don't have subtitles. [SPEAKER_00]: So if you don't mind subtitles, watching it with subtitles, might help because then help me at Hamilton the first time. [SPEAKER_01]: That could help you get like more the story. [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe that could help you. [SPEAKER_01]: That's true. [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I'll consider that. [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, Orfius is interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: So don't look back, but he's fucking gone on because he's a loser who can't follow rules. [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, that's next week for Buffy and Angel. [SPEAKER_01]: Anything else, Sarah?

1:26:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Anything else going on that you want to speak on? [SPEAKER_01]: Nope, that's it. [SPEAKER_01]: All right, well, that's everything we've got, everyone. [SPEAKER_01]: So, wasn't a longer podcast. [SPEAKER_01]: We had a lot to talk about. [SPEAKER_01]: So, we'll be back next week to talk about Buffy and Angel until then everyone here and if the list. [SPEAKER_01]: Just ask, she'll not be sure to start me.